June 3, 2020

Josh Taylor On How StoryBrand Can Grow Your Business — The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 7

Josh Taylor On How StoryBrand Can Grow Your Business — The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 7

On this episode of the ROI Online Podcast, Steve chats with entrepreneur and StoryBrand Guide Josh Taylor about the role story plays in a business's success.

Josh grew up in New Orleans, very active in his family's church. He lead worship for his church's youth group and developed a passion for leadership and ministry. Shortly after graduating from the University of Mobile in Alabama with a theology and seminary degree, he began working at a new church, eventually taking over as the worship pastor.

While working at the church, Josh wore a lot of hats. He managed the church's marketing, graphic design, and videography, as well as giving sermons each week. Marketing was where he really found his passion. He had an entrepreneurial mindset, and he found fulfillment in helping the church spread its mission.

Josh began doing marketing on the side, and that's when he discovered Donald Miller's StoryBrand Framework: a new approach to content creation that turns brands' messaging into effective (and persuasive) stories. He saw the impact that clear messaging had on the church's success and considered that many of the same principles applied to small businesses as well.

You can't keep people coming to your doors if your messaging is unclear and you don't seem like you care about them as individuals. Empathy is the key to building deep relationships with customers, which, in turn, keeps them coming back for more.

A change in leadership at his teaching position at the University of Mobile opened the door for Josh to go his own way and retire from the church. He started his own marketing firm, ReStory Marketing, where he helps business owners clarify their message and clean up their sales process using the StoryBrand Framework.

While the changing times have made running a business more difficult, Josh has found that the secret of surviving is simple perseverance. When you find your rhythm and remember the important things of life, you can make it through anything—even pandemics.

Josh Taylor is the founder of ReStory Marketing:


To learn more about StoryBrand, pick up your copy of Donald Miller's book, Building a StoryBrand, by clicking this link.

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{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":2.0,"body":"Well, I think one of the things that I could bring to the table with my experiences as a pastor is understanding the way that people think and what they're afraid of, and being able to express that empathy that people have that I think is so important. I think that's what separates businesses from their competitors is how they express empathy. I think that part of the framework is probably one of the biggest things from the StoryBrand framework that businesses are missing outside of not playing the hero in the story, but playing the guide. I think that empathy is one of the biggest parts of it.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":37.0,"body":"Hi, everybody. Welcome to the ROI Online Podcast where we believe you, the courageous entrepreneurs of our day, are the invisible heroes of our economy. You not only improve our world with your ideas, your grit and your passion, but you make our world better. I'm Steve Brown, and this is the place where we have great conversations with winners just like you while we laugh and learn together. \n\nAll right, welcome back to the ROI Online Podcast where you the heroes, invisible heroes in the American economy, the entrepreneurs, and where we sit and meet really interesting people. And so today, I'm really proud to introduce to you Josh Taylor. You know, one of the things from this podcast that I really want to do is I love introducing people that I value, that you'll get get some value out. So I've met john Taylor through the StoryBrand Guide network, and learn a little bit about him. And one of the things we'll be doing is talking to StoryBrand Guides. I think that's a very valuable framework to bring into your business. Josh is an expert on this area. And so I wanted to introduce you to Josh Taylor. Josh is the owner of Restoring Marketing. He's in Mobile, Alabama. He's a recovering pastor of 11 years. You know, he worked with people and help clean them spiritually. And now it's just as important to help business leaders and lead them as well with the same attention and the same caring. So, Josh, welcome to the ROI Online Podcast.\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":147.0,"body":"Hey, Steve, thanks for having me.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":148.0,"body":"Yeah. So Josh, tell us a little bit... That's very interesting to me that, obviously you begin your ministry somewhere. Something happened in your life where you felt that was really important. And so you made that commitment. Talk to us a little bit about the beginning or your origin story there.\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":169.0,"body":"Yeah. So I grew up in New Orleans and grew up in church and started leading worship for our youth group and got a taste of leadership and what that look like and made a lot of mistakes with that. And, of course, as a high school student getting to do that, I got the big head for a while, too. And I had some great mentors in my life that were very honest with me. And I had an older brother that was also very honest with me and knocks me down to where I needed to be very quickly. And many of those mentors I still keep in touch with on a weekly basis. And from there, graduated high school in New Orleans, moved to Mobile to go to University of Mobile, got a theology degree, and then a seminary degree, a Master's from New Orleans Seminary, and was a part of a church plant here in Mobile. Got to watch that grow, got to learn how much church planters need to be entrepreneurs, and have that entrepreneurial mindset. And so we got to grow something from scratch and learned a lot through that process, had the opportunity to do that. And started out as the worship pastor there. We quickly realized how much administration is needed in a church plant. And so I moved over to the role of executive pastor and did that for 11 years. until about two years ago, right about this time two years ago, I resigned to go teach full time at the University of Mobile for a year, was launching my business during that time on the side and then did that for a year. And now I'm full time in my marketing business. And then I am in a part-time instructor for the University of Mobile in their ministry leadership courses.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":263.0,"body":"I was going to ask, so ministry and leadership courses... What do you see as a leadership strength that you really need to excel or to do well in the ministry? You probably have observed other churches that struggle with certain leadership styles. What do you think is a successful leadership process there?\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":285.0,"body":"I think there's two. I think, obviously, humility and that really needs to be a given for anyone. But patience, and I think pastors that have that entrepreneurial mindset are the ones that really do well because they're self starters. They can see the world a little bit differently. They can think outside of the box, and they can pivot and change when it needs to change. And in churches, that probably needs to happen more than than it does. And I think the pastors that do that are the ones that succeed. And they're the ones that have the greater influence with people because I can see how the world changes so quickly. The way that we did things, even 15 or 20 years ago, not 50 or 70 years ago, is very different. And so I think that that entrepreneurial mindset for pastors, and that patience, is something that is a strong point for leaders.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":335.0,"body":"So when you talk about that entrepreneurial mindset, there's probably some resistance within a church that may think that they're exempt from that. But yet, you know, they want to be separate from the world but yet they are operating in the world. So what are some of the things that the the hurdles he had to get past or to get your organization so to speak to adopt and embrace that and be comfortable with it?\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":361.0,"body":"Yeah, for the most part, I worked for a lead pastor that was very much... He was really good at putting a good team around him. And and then he stepped out of the way. So he wasn't a micromanager. He put people around him that he trusted. And basically his thing was, \"I'm hiring you to do this because you're better at it than I am. So just do your job. And I don't care when you do it or how you do it as long as the job gets done.\" He was not a proud person. He was not scared to share the spotlight. In fact, he gave me a lot of opportunities to preach because he wasn't afraid to share the pulpit either. So I had a great mentor in that and just got really lucky in being able to work for somebody like that. \n\nIt was also a challenge because we had other leaders that were lay leaders that were... We kind of balanced the power so it wasn't always pastors making all the decisions. We had lay people in there as well for accountability. And there was some butting heads for a little bit, for the most part, just because it was a different way of thinking. But you got to consider: pastors are basically small business owners and they operate in that arena. And so they've either got to put the right people around them on their staff, or they've got to wear a lot of different hats, because these are guys that are trying to make a lot of financial decisions that they were never taught how to do. They're figuring out how to do payroll. They're figuring out how to do HR. For a lot of them even in our case, sometimes it was about real estate. Finding real estate and making deals and negotiating and all that kind of stuff that they don't teach you in seminary. And so we're we're learning on our feet a lot and playing a lot of different roles that we were never taught how to play. And most of us don't have business degrees; we have theology degrees.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":454.0,"body":"Don't you think that's a common theme... Maybe you would see that with lawyers, or physicians, or like that song lawyers and doctors and such. Everybody finds that they need to get really good at those things when they first saw themselves as whatever they got their degree in or whatever they started their business. That's huge.\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":475.0,"body":"Yeah. On top of that, writing a sermon or two every week, too.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":479.0,"body":"Right? Yeah, so not only do you need to be good at what you trained for, but you need to be a good business person is what you're saying. \n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":488.0,"body":"Yeah. \n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":489.0,"body":"So something happened, as they say in a story. You had this event that happened that changed your status quo where you realize what you'd been doing for 11 years. You were having a feeling of moving on into the future and doing something else and challenging yourself. Tell us about that.\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":510.0,"body":"Yeah, so I really fought it for a couple of years. And the pastor that I worked for, he was also the closest friend that I had, and he knew me really well. And so he was seeing it, but he didn't say a lot of things because he didn't want to sway my decision. One, he didn't really want me to leave, but he didn't want that to be why I stayed. And so he didn't say a whole lot, but he was watching it in me. For about two years, I just knew, I feel like there's something else that I'm supposed to do and there's this entrepreneurial itch that I really want to scratch. And I did a couple of side businesses and sometimes it got me in trouble because you're spending time doing other things and passion projects and these different things. And so for about two years, I fought it. And one of the things that I noticed as I was fighting it, one of the symptoms of that was bitterness. And I just started losing patience and getting bitter and having conversations that I wasn't the most patient with. And, and it was really because I knew I was fighting this thing. \n\nAnd so finally, just one day, everything kind of came to a screeching halt. And I had a conversation with the lead pastor and just said, \"Look, I think that it's time for me to go do something else, because I feel like I'm holding the church back because of the attitude that I'm beginning to have on certain things and I don't want change.\" I was hanging on to some things too tightly and he said, \"Josh, I've been watching you for two years.\" And he said, \"I feel like we're holding you back. I feel like there is something great that you have in your heart and in your mind to go do and you need to go do it and you can't do it because we're holding you back.\" And he said, \"But I didn't want to say anything, because I didn't want to sway your decision.\" \n\nAnd so it was really a great conversation, and really ended really, really well. And then we did a couple of months of transition, because that's 11 years of stuff that's in my head, that needs to get out to other people, which was part of learning the process, too, is there was there were more systems that I probably should have put into place before I left to get some stuff out of my head, because had I died or something like that we didn't have that transition time. It would have been really tough. Just a little side note there. But that was kind of it, you know, and that was me recognizing, \"I'm hanging on to things that I don't need to be hanging on to I'm getting bitter and angry about things that are just petty and small.\" And it was all because I was just fighting a change that... I was just scared to leave something that was comfortable and had become easy to me to step out into the unknown.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":654.0,"body":"I'm relating. That's where I was emotionally before I began ROI Online. And I remember, I'd gone through the cycle, three different positions, before I finally pulled the trigger. And what I realized one day I thought, \"You know, if I'm so smart...\" And I'm sitting here complaining about how this person could be running this business better. That was their business, they had the total right to do it. I'm oblivious to all the other things behind the scenes. I don't know and why it's impacting why they're running it. But one day, I just thought to myself, \"If you're so smart, then why don't you step out and do this?\" But here's the truth. I was scared, right? \n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":699.0,"body":"Oh, yeah. \n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":699.0,"body":"So when you made this decision, you have a family.\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":704.0,"body":"Right.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":705.0,"body":"What were the emotions you were going through? What were the fears? What were your concerns?\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":709.0,"body":"My wife even, because I would have conversations with her, and she she liked the security of having a steady paycheck and we had health insurance and all those different things that come with having a full-time, regular job. And so she even fought it for a little while, too. And I was having these conversations. And then when everything kind of came together, she said, \"You know, I do think it's time.\" Because she began to see what I was wrestling with. And she began to see the frustration that I was having and just what it was doing to me. And so she knew it was time. \n\nIt wasn't until with the University of Mobile and going on full time and doing that for a year, when there were some changes that happened at the University of Mobile. The President that brought me on and resigned. And so the title that I had didn't make a whole lot of sense for the direction that the school was going. And so they just decided not to renew my contract. And I remember walking home... And that was the biggest thing for me. I remember walking home, loving the school and loving the institution. Well, obviously, I'm still there as an instructor. It was just a decision that the board had to make. But I remember walking into the front door that day, and just thinking, \"How am I going to tell Rachel? How is this conversation going to go?\" And I sat down in the living room. Our son was in his room playing. And I just told her, \"They decided not to renew my contract. So in a month, I don't have a job.\" And she said, \"It's okay. So I think this is a good thing.\" She said, \"I think it's time for you to do your business full time. And I have faith that you're gonna do really well with this.\" She was not worried. She was not scared. Maybe she wasn't expressing those emotions, but she's also one of those people that if she's thinking that she's gonna say it. And she really did say she said, \"It's okay. I think this is the right time for you to do your business full time. I don't think you need to look for something else. I think you need to jump into this with both feet.\"\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":818.0,"body":"That's awesome. So you started your marketing business... That's interesting that you wanted to do that instead of something else. Why? Why the marketing thing? Why did you want to work with business people and help them figure that out?\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":832.0,"body":"Yeah, so I had seen StoryBrand's, I've seen Don do these advertisements on Facebook talking about the Guide program, and I'd watch them. And at first I was like, \"You know, this seems like a multi level marketing thing.\" But then I was like, \"Don...\" You know, I was a fan of Don when he wrote \"Blue Like Jazz.\" And so I've been a fan of him since I was a freshman or sophomore in college. And I was just like, \"Don doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would be a part of a multi-level marketing thing.\" And so I watched it was interested in it, had a friend of mine that had just gone through it and just finished it and he had said something about it. And so I just, I remember texting him that day and said, \"Hey, tell me about this Guide Certification.\" And he told me, \"Josh, based on what I know, of you and your skill set and the way that you think, I think it's something that you should definitely check out.\" \n\nAnd the reason I was interested in is because I've done that for the church. I mean, when you're doing a church plan, and it's you and one other guy on staff, you're doing everything. You're doing the marketing. you're doing the graphic design. You're doing video and all that stuff. But what appealed to me the most about it was the messaging side of it, that there's a framework that I can use to make a clearer message. And that was the thing that we struggled with at the church was: how do we communicate what we are known for instead of trying to be all these different things and appeal to all these different people? What is the thing that we are known for and how do we make that very clear? And so I went to certification in September of 2017, got certified. The first thing that I did was implemented it into our church, and quickly saw how much we were getting in our own way as far as how we communicated. Within three months, we saw a 76% increase in attendance. Our giving went up 104% that year. Our online livestream views went up 175% within six months. And then our you know, attendance for events and stuff was skyrocketing, because we figured out we're getting in our own way when it comes to communication. And that's what the StoryBrand framework helped us do is get out of our way.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":945.0,"body":"What you're describing is why most business leaders struggle with. I think the number one challenge that every business leader faces is how to communicate clearly and effectively. I know I've struggled with a bunch. You wouldn't think that everyone understands what you're thinking or what you're doing, but it's just not the fact. \n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":965.0,"body":"Right? Yeah, and it's what Don has called \"The Curse of Knowledge\" in his book. And that's really what most of us have, even in the church. We assume people know because it's second nature to us. We know our business really well. We love our business. We're passionate about it. And we struggle to see what our customer see. We struggle to look at our business or our church or our nonprofit and the way that our customers or our audience looks at it and seeing it from their perspective.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":995.0,"body":"So you get jacked up about it. You start to have some success with it. So maybe there were some clients that you wanted to apply this framework with, but they weren't into it, or they didn't really buy into that. Talk to us about that.\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":1010.0,"body":"I haven't had that happen a whole lot, mainly because I work... I have a rule I only work with small businesses or nonprofits that want to implement StoryBrand. And so they most of them are bought into the system. Now there have been people, especially locally, that I've tried to talk to it about or communicate with. And the biggest pushback that I get is they think they're already communicating really well. And I remember one... There's local guys that are CPAs. And a guy that works for them. He's not in the leadership, but he just said, \"Hey, I know you're doing this. Would you take a look at our website And just tell me what you think? We just spent $30,000 redesigning it. And just tell me what you think.\" And I think part of it was he was wanting me to kind of compliment it and say it and I was like, \"There's nothing on your homepage that lets me know that you guys are CPAs.\" \n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1059.0,"body":"Yeah. \n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":1060.0,"body":"And I knew who he worked for, but I didn't know what kind of company it was. And I had to go back and ask him, \"Tell me again what you guys do.\" And he told me that and I was like, \"I thought you guys were like investment firms or something like that. I had no idea that you guys are accountants, because your homepage doesn't say anything about it.\"\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1075.0,"body":"Yeah, I think that's great. You know, if they if they haven't read \"Building a StoryBrand\" or if they haven't really listened in or been in any of those classes, it's hard for them to grasp or value it. And so we're of the same mind that the folks that we really connect with are the ones that understand that this framework is a great way to clearly, succinctly communicate. You relate with your clients and how you can help them. And it's so hard to... It's weird how we're just naturally inclined to mess up our messaging unless we follow a framework.\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":1118.0,"body":"Yeah. Well, yeah, we want to we want to say things that are cute and clever and, and we think that that is better than clear. We think that will get their attention and we don't realize people want things to be simple. I don't want to have to sit there and think about what it is that you do, or what kind of value. I just want you to tell me. And I'm gonna \"land the plane\" kind of guy. I'm not a \"let's go all over the place to figure out what we're going.\" Let's get right to it. And I think most people are when it comes to businesses, \"I want to know quickly because I don't have time to figure it out. I need to know what it is that you do and what kind of value you bring to me. Why should I do business with you?\"\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1156.0,"body":"Mostly every day for the last 10 years, I've worked with business leaders such as you. And there's this common conversation that I've had over and over. That goes a little like this, \"Steve, I see other brands excelling online and I feel we need to do the same because my customers are expecting at us. I'm not sure where to start. But I think we need to redo our website. What's the best way to approach this?\" And this is why I wrote my book, \"The Golden Toilet: Stop Flushing Your Marketing Budget into Your Website and Build a System that Grows Your Business.\" It's a book designed to empower my business leader so that they have the words and the proper expectations to communicate what it is they really need and get what they really need instead of something that's sold to them, it puts them in a position of confidence and clarity. And so to get this book, it's a great read, you can go to Amazon to get it there. Or you can go to thegoldentoilet.com and click on your copy. Now, back to our conversation. \n\nMarketing is broken. And we're not the only one saying that and we're definitely not the only ones feeling that. But I think that where marketing got off track is when marketing started or businesses started referring to people or humans as \"consumers,\" where they started not seeing a face not seeing a name and they just see them. I call it, \"They just see them as cows with credit cards.\" Right? And they're just trying to figure out how do we get money out of consumers and marketing that approaches that mindset is broken. And that's what I think that the StoryBrand framework really helped me start a journey where I started seeing things way different. And the essence of why it works is because it helped me to start putting myself in other people's shoes, and realizing that they have struggles and fears and concerns just like I do. And so how do you communicate that you understand them as you you show them that you understand them with? Not with just the text, but experience, the images, the feel..\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":1307.0,"body":"The empathy. \n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1308.0,"body":"Mm hmm.\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":1309.0,"body":"Yeah. And I think that, I mean, even Don makes points similar to that in his book, but one of the things that I loved about The Golden Toilet that you wrote was how... You made it very clear and it resonated with me because that's one of the biggest things that I have clients push back on me is, \"What about SEO? What about SEO? What about SEO?\" And one of the things that you make so clear that I've sent to other clients of mine that have pushed back on it is, \"Stop writing your websites for computers and start writing them for humans, because that's who's buying your stuff.\" And I love the point that you made that if Google can fig.... If you can say to Google, \"Show me pictures of my dog,\" and you've never tagged images of your dog, and Google can still figure out how to show pictures of your dog. Google can figure out what your website is about if you're writing it for humans, and not writing it to the SEO gods.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1357.0,"body":"They're fickle gods and they punish you without mercy.\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":1363.0,"body":"And they change their standards every day.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1365.0,"body":"Every day, every day and it's just wrong. There's manipulation going on and it's just the wrong player. A small business only has a limited budget, and to waste it on trying to trick Google into thinking ,you got to throw it keywords like sardines to the...\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":1381.0,"body":"mice sacrifices. \n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1383.0,"body":"Exactly. You know, one of the things that helped me realize that is HubSpot. They talk about setting up a content tree, where you have lots of content around a certain topic. And it started to make sense to me more. And I started to realize that if you could focus on creating content that was helpful and useful, more than trying to trick a robot, then you've made... You've come over from the dark side to the right side, right? To the human side. And see people as humans and what they what do they need? They're evaluating what you do from a distance of safety. So help them, help them along. Because if you don't, they're gonna go somewhere else and evaluate until they feel comfortable to approach.\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":1430.0,"body":"Yeah, and I think too many businesses think of their product as widgets or a means to an end. And I think we need to think not just our product offers value, but the content that we put out needs to offer value. And one of the things that I think about is: every email that I send out or everything that I asked someone to read or a video to watch, I want to ask, \"When they get to the end of this, will they think to themselves, that was really worth my time?\" And I think that if we can continue... If we're not offering our customers value, then why do we exist anyway? And that needs to be our content that needs to be our products.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1464.0,"body":"I was having a conversation this morning. And one of the signs that you know someone values you is they give you their time. If they don't have time to spend with you, then the message there is, \"I don't value you enough to share a little time with you.\" And so your content, when it's valuable, that's what you get back from the folks that find value. They go, \"Here. I'm connecting with you. I want to spend some more time with you.\" So what are some of the... If I was curious, what are the areas you specialize in? Or what do you think that you have this unique perspective that you can offer folks? Talk to us about that.\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":1504.0,"body":"Well, I think one of the things that I can bring to the table with my experience as a pastor is understanding the way that people think and what they're afraid of, and being able to express that empathy that people have that I think is so important. I think that that's what separates businesses from their competitors is how they express empathy. I think that that part of the framework is probably one of the biggest things from the StoryBrand framework that businesses are missing, outside of not playing the hero in the story but playing the guide. I think that empathy is one of the biggest parts of it. And so understanding how to express that empathy and understanding, \"What are people afraid of? What are they scared of?\" and being able to overcome that. \n\nThe thing that I love when working with clients is helping them with their messaging, and finding that clarity before we start building websites, before we start writing email campaigns, finding that clarity. And so spending what I like to call a strategy session where we just spend the day walking through and creating clarity, creating an elevator pitch, so that you and your employees can understand what you do better and why you exist. The number one thing that people want in life is purpose. They value purpose. They want to know that they're living for something. And I think that when we can create clarity around who we are, we give our employees purpose. They understand why we exist, and what we're trying to accomplish, and then they engage better. And when they engage better, our customers engage. And so I love doing that. \n\nThe biggest thing that we often run into with our clients is figuring out how complicated their sales processes are and helping them clean those up a lot. Because we have really complicated sales processes for our customers, and that often deters people from buying. And so that's always part of the conversation is, \"Tell me how people engage with you. Wow, that's way too many steps. Let's get that down to two or three. Let's make it super easy. And if it's not super easy, let's try to communicate it in a way that doesn't overwhelm them so that they never start doing the process. And let's figure out how to do more of the work on our end so that they don't have to do a lot of the work on their end.\"\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1623.0,"body":"Isn't that crazy how this thing that starts at the marketing doorstep, this messaging thing, actually is a legitimate business process that the biggest lever that it can impact is the sales process? I found that, and I talked about in my book, but here I've gotten all these things right but then we realized that we hadn't spent any time in the sales area with this client. And they couldn't see the value after several years. They just thought, \"I don't see where this is making a difference.\" And I realized they had a big hole in their bucket on the sales side. Because your marketing has this message, this experience. You're kind of coming in here, but when it got handed off to sales, it was totally incongruent and different. And we've all been in that place where we were like excited to do something and then we get in there and there's something happens in the sales process and we leave upset and frustrated. We invested all this time and then they go and pull that monkey business! That upsets us. Right. \n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":1689.0,"body":"Right. Yeah. And that's what I tell clients all the time is, \"You know, I can get people to your front door. But what happens after that, if we're not gonna get into your employees and the sales process and how they interact with customers, then I can't help you be on the front door.\" It's the same with churches. I could get people to be interested in showing up and visiting your church, but if your parking lot is confusing, or if your building is confusing, or if your employees or your staff are just not kind people, or your pastor is a lazy communicator, I can't help that. I can, but they usually stop at the front door and they're like, \"We got everything else.\" And part of this messaging... One of the things that I especially do with churches is, \"Let's walk through your facilities and figure out how confusing your building is. I mean, people can't even find the restroom, much less where you're asking them to drop off their kids to perfect strangers.\"\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1739.0,"body":"Right? That right there, what you just described in the physical world is the same experience is happening in the virtual world of their representation. Right? \n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":1749.0,"body":"Exactly. \n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1750.0,"body":"What do you say to the folks that go, \"Okay, so what can you guarantee me if we do this messaging? What can you guarantee me as the results going to be?\"\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":1761.0,"body":"Yeah, well, you know, it's hard to guarantee results, obviously, because there's especially marketing, there's so much that's out of our hands because I can't make their employees say the elevator pitch. I can't make their employees memorize the elevator pitch, which I always encourage. I love Donald Miller's approach to it of every time you ask an employee, \"Tell me what our one liner is, or a mission statement, hand the, a $5 bill and give them incentive to memorize it.\" but I can't I can't make you implement these things. We can come up with a messaging. You're going to have a lot more clarity about what you do. You're going to have a filter of things that you can say no to, and things that you can say yes to, so that you don't dilute your product or dilute your business. Your employees are going to be more clear. You're going to have more engagement there. And then your your customers are going to know what you do and they're going to want to buy from you. You're going to give them a simple thing to reject or accept. Now, as far as results, you know, I don't ever guarantee any kind of results, because again, there's so much that's out of our hands. But if they implement those things, and they implement what we work on together, they're gonna see growth, just like I saw growth with our church. Because I mean, clarity... That's usually the biggest problem that businesses have is a lack of clarity. They have a great product. They should be selling a ton of those. And the reason they're not is because they don't know how to talk about it clearly.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1838.0,"body":"Yes, it's a force multiplier. You still have to fight, just like you always have when you started your business. You still have to fight. We're just sharpening the sword here. We're making it clear what your banner is. We're tightening up other things that give you an advantage, that when people start to evaluate what you're doing. We've just improved your sales support tool. But bottom line, you still have to drag it across the line.\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":1867.0,"body":"Right? Yeah, there's still work to be done. But we've just... We've hopefully made it a lot easier for you.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1872.0,"body":"So, two years into making this, stepping out and starting your thing. Talk to us about where you are now. What perspectives have changed on this side that you didn't expect as a business owner?\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":1888.0,"body":"Yeah, there's so many things that have changed. Working in an office, we had a pretty flexible culture and just a great culture. I worked at the church, I worked with my closest friends, and they're still my closest friends. And so we already had a great culture and a great work environment there. One of the things that I learned stepping into this is how isolating it can be. And being a business owner, especially a solopreneur, it can be very isolating. And one of the best things for me has been the StoryBrand Guide Community. You know, there's 600 guides, I think out right now, something like that. And for the most part, we're not competitive. We're not competing for throwing each other under the bus to get $1 or anything like that. It's just a really strong community. \n\nAnd so that's been super helpful for me is how important community is, and having other like-minded people that you can talk to and bounce things off just like what we're doing here. You and I've jumped on the phone in the past just to talk through business ideas and things that I was struggling with on decisions that needed to be made. And those kind of conversations have been extremely helpful, where before I was more of... I think I took those relationships for granted. And I was not great at delegating. I was the guy that if I wanted done right, I'm going to do it myself. And so learning how to outsource as a part of my business was really the only way to scale. getting other people involved, whether it was hiring other employees that could do the job better than I could or outsourcing to people that can do it better. That's really the best way to scale. \n\nAnd that was a struggle for me at first because I was like, \"I'm gonna pay them to do something that I could be doing myself,\" and what I I had to learn was, \"How much is it costing me to do it myself when I could pay someone less to go do it because I could jump on a sales call and bring in more business?\" So that was some of the bigger, bigger things. And then learning how to be productive. You know whether you're working from home, I'm sitting in the guest room right now. I've also got an office at a co-working space downtown, but learning how to be productive when you don't have somebody else to answer to. You've got to get the job done. And so I learned some techniques on getting productive. That was really helpful as well.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":2008.0,"body":"So that's one of the reasons behind this podcast is I got the scholarship at Goldman Sachs. I got to go to this really cool program called 10,000 Small Businesses Program sponsored by Goldman Sachs, but it's put on at Babson College. And I sat in a room with all these other entrepreneurs and the big thing that I realized is I wasn't crazy. That there's these common struggles like you're talking about right now, this alone. This needing to focus on the right priorities, outsourcing, all these things are common struggles that each business owner confronts. I'm loving that you share that because we all... We're not crazy. These are common things. You even illustrated that when you were talking about the process with running a church, but I want to know... So your pipeline, you talked about sometimes the biggest challenge that you're facing right now, especially during this virus or the shelter in place process. Talk about what what are you doing to work on your pipeline?\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":2070.0,"body":"Yeah. And that's, I think, probably a very common struggle with business owners, whether they're small business owners are solopreneurs, is doing for themselves what they preach to other small business owners. Or even for me, what I do for other businesses, struggling to do that for myself and creating that sales pipeline and the sales funnel that we that we implement with StoryBrand. And so that's one of the things that I've been doing. I've been thinking a lot about content and, \"What are ways that I can generate a cash flow that's passive?\" I think that that's an important part of scaling a business is creating that passive income. And we have technology that we've never had before that has changed the small business structure through being able to generate passive income through education. \n\nAnd so the biggest thing for me is what kind of value can I bring to people and coming up with those ideas and that content. And then creating some content that people will want to opt into, whether it's giving me their email address, and then I can continue to deliver more value to them. So that when we come out of this recession, I love the way that Don puts it, there's going to be businesses that are going to sprint out of this recession, or there's going to be businesses that are going to crawl out of this recession if they survived it. And I think that people that are putting together their sales pipeline right now and looking ahead of, \"How do I come out of this sprinting?\" Those are going to be the ones that that get through this and end up having a better year at the end of the year than they ever imagined. Because they're going to come out of this with a with a great pipeline.\n\nSo I'm working on content, creating those lead generators where I can offer people value, put them into an email campaign much like what you talked about in \"The Golden Toilet.\" I love the title of that book, by the way. I gave it to a friend of mine. And he started a while Integrity Music, Integrity Media that basically changed the worship music in America. And I gave him... He's this corporate business guy, and I gave them this book called \"The Golden Toilet\". And he just laughed, but he's loved the book. But it just it was weird to hand the CEO of this billion dollar company, \"Here's a book called 'The Golden Toilet' that I think you really need to read.\" But creating those things that even you talked about in the book that sales automations. This is the best time to work on it when things are slow. If people can't go in, you know... But even businesses need to figure out... My wife was asking me, \"What are dentists doing right now?\" Dentists can be educating people. They can either be doing virtual consultations or they can be teaching parents, \"Here's how you teach your kids to brush their teeth.\" You're building authority. You're building that trust. And then when people are ready and comfortable to come back into your office, you're the one that they're going to choose because they already trust you.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":2227.0,"body":"Yeah, it's harder than it sounds though, isn't it?\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":2230.0,"body":"Oh, my goodness. And you know, I've still got some projects going with clients that fortunately haven't been halted. Most of them are churches right now that see a need now more than ever for an online presence. And so they're not stopping their websites and building their websites. But just finding that time to think, \"What do I have to offer?\" And I think that that's a great way to have conversations with friends and spouses. And hey, when you look at me and the conversations that we've had, \"What kind of value do you think that I can bring to my customers during this time?\"\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":2260.0,"body":"If I'm someone that's listening to this podcast, and I'm curious about a conversation with you, what are you offering right now? Tell us why Restoring, number one, and then tell us like if we were to reach out what would the first conversation with you cover?\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":2278.0,"body":"Yeah, so the name of my business is Restoring Marketing Solution and obviously restored because we're, we're implementing a StoryBrand framework, which is a storytelling framework. And most of what I do with my clients is re-evaluating the way that we tell the story. Because for most of us, we're telling our story and our customers don't care about our story. They care about their story. And they want to know, \"How do you fit into my story?\" So we're reevaluating how we tell the story. And right now I'm offering a 90 minutes basically what I call the Coronavirus strategy. And so it's a 90 minute conversation where we, for $197, we're going to get on the phone and we're going to reevaluate your message. We're going to walk through your elevator pitch. We're going to create an elevator pitch. We're going to talk through strategy. \n\nI was on the phone with a photobooth company in Wisconsin the other day, and they're not doing events. I mean, the service industry is just at a dead stop right now. But we were already talking about ways... I mean, they got off the phone excited because we were talking about ways that they can start generating income and have 2021 booked out. Because we know we're not going to be dealing with with this in 2021 if we are we're going to be having way different conversations. But how do they get 2021 booked out? And how do they get stuff booked out at the end of the year, so they can start generating some cash flow now, rather than just get paralyzed because nothing's happening in the industry? So that's what we're doing right now. But you know, we're building websites. We're creating an entire the StoryBrand sales funnel, so email campaigns, lead generators, all of those things to for you to stay engaged with your customers. And this is not the time to stop talking to your customers. This is really the time to over communicate and not be salesy to your customers, but just to offer them value. How can I help my customers feel better during this time, feel happier, feel reassured, feel confident? What can I do for my customers that will give them value so that they see me as an authority and someone that they can trust?\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":2392.0,"body":"Yeah, I've noticed that trend. You know, there's been this propaganda that we're all so divided as a nation. But what I'm witnessing in what you've just said is: I see messages often of people going, \"Look, I see you're human. I know you're going to a challenge right now. Let's figure out a way that I can bring some value to you, and support you and develop a relationship. And we'll worry about doing business as soon as we can.\" That's the actions I see. How about you? What are you seeing? \n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":2427.0,"body":"Absolutely. I think the biggest thing that we've seen is whether you're in politics or you're in business, or you're in the faith-based industry, what we're beginning to see is people see are seeing each other as human beings.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":2441.0,"body":"Yes. \n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":2441.0,"body":"And we're showing that empathy, we're seeing that and we're not we're not speaking to each other like we're cows. Or that we're just hurting these people to get them to give us their credit card. These are human beings, and these are human beings that aren't bringing in money. So now's not the time to ask them for money. That's inappropriate. It's wrong. How can I support them to make them feel better, and give them value, because that's what people need right now? And, and we're even seeing that in politics. They're still having their fights and stuff, but you're not seeing it in the media. You're not hearing about it. You're hearing people come together. And you know, whether they're celebrities or people just like you and me, we're in this together. And that's, that's a phrase that we keep hearing a lot.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":2478.0,"body":"That's cool. The pendulum is swinging back to human. Marketing used to be broken, but there's this movement afoot, where it's becoming human. That we're seeing people. We're helping our clients communicate. They see their prospects and their customers as humans with feelings and needs, and that they have unique solutions. So if someone want to get hold of you, Josh, or connect with you, or some of the areas that they can find you?\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":2509.0,"body":"Yeah, so my website is restorymarketing.com. And from there, they can schedule a call with me. The homepage right now is you know, it's a pivot. It's a change of message. And so the homepage is talking about jumping on that 90 minute call. But if they just want to do a 20 minute, \"Hey, what can we do together kind of thing?\" There's a link there as well, where they can do that, and would love to jump on a 20 minute call. I'm also reviewing people's websites so that they can figure out, \"What do we need to change coming out of this? How can we better our website and our messaging there?\" And I'm doing that for free. A free 20 minute phone call. And then they can find me on Instagram. It's JoshTaylor.Guide. And then on Twitter, I'm sort of active on Twitter. It's joshtaylor83. But Instagram is probably the best social media platform to find me on.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":2557.0,"body":"Excellent. So one more questions. So what question that I not asked that you wish I would have asked you?\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":2565.0,"body":"Oh man. I don't know you have some good questions. Really good. I mean, for me, it's being a solopreneur. And whether I'm working from home and these constant changes, and how do they pivot? What's been the biggest way or the best way, when things like this happened, what's been the the best way to pivot?\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":2584.0,"body":"Yeah. So what's been the best way to pivot, Josh? I was wanting to ask you that but I...\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":2588.0,"body":"Yeah, I mean, for me, it's finding that rhythm. I mean, everything has changed. And I don't know that everything's going to go back to normal. And I don't know that everything should go back to normal. I think that this is caused people to step out of their comfort zones, and figure out that they have in them what they didn't know they had. And, for me, it's finding a new rhythm. And so it's waking up early, and it's sticking to a schedule. I'm working at home, which I'm not used to. We have a five year old at home, some people have five kids at home. We're one of the lucky ones that just have one, the five year old, you know, Some people will have a house full. And finding that space and finding that rhythm. I think that if this has showed us anything, it showed us what we are capable of. Individually, what we can do. And if we stick to that schedule, we find that rhythm and we get disciplined. I've been able to get more done in the last couple of weeks, then I was doing an a normal day. Because you have to, and my family depends on it. And so we're going to do what we can to make it happen. And that's that's been the biggest way to pivot is just to change the mindset of, \"I can do this. I can do more than I thought I could do. And if I can just stick to a rhythm and stick to a schedule, I can do it. \" \n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":2662.0,"body":"We're going to be okay. Josh, I've enjoyed it's a great conversation. Thank you for being on the ROI Online Podcast.\n"},{"speaker":"Josh Taylor ","startTime":2670.0,"body":"My pleasure. Thanks for having me.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":2672.0,"body":"All right, everybody. That's a wrap. Stay tuned, we're going to have another great episode coming up. Thanks for listening to another fun episode of the ROI Online Podcast. For more, be sure to check out the show notes of this episode. And feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn where we can chat and I can help direct you to the resources you're searching for. To learn more about how you can grow your business better, be sure to pick up your copy of my book, \"The Golden Toilet,\" at, surprise, thegoldentoilet.com. I'm Steve Brown and we'll see you next week on another fun episode of the ROI Online Podcast."}]}