[Special Episode] The Mindstate Marketing Hour #12 with Will Leach - The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 68

Welcome to the ROI online podcast. And this is a special series of interviews with will Leach. He's the author of marketing to mind states the practical guide to applying behavior design to research and marketing. And I'm your host, Steve Brown, the author of the funniest book on marketing, the golden toilet, stop flushing your marketing budget into your website and build a system that grows your business. And then this series of conversations, we're going to explore everything about marketing, your messaging, and connecting with your clients, your customers, your employees. So come on, and join us. And let's have some fun. All right, and we're live. It's another great fun episode of the mind state marketing hour with will Leach.

Oh, Steve,

welcome. Welcome to another episode of marketing, the mind state marketing our How to use science to connect with your clients based on the book, marketing the mind states by will, that's one of my top books, you guys got to get it. So today, you wanted to talk about optimizing your company's h x via life stage, transitioning, Ajax means human experience. It's a new term, we're getting past the consumer experience. And what's the other one? customer experience? Right? And we're starting to view humans like we should we'll talk to us about this. I'm excited about this episode.

Yeah. So you know, it actually, um, this time of year, you start thinking about your life Steve, you know how things are going we have politics and in the air and, and you know, Halloween, I just had, you know, a bunch I saw my son wearing probably his last Halloween outfit, he kind of he's he's 11 now, right? So he feels a little bit awkward dressing up, but he still wants the candy. But I was reflecting on it. There's kind of like a sadness in that right? When you see these transitions in my son into a man in the next couple of years. And it got me to thinking about transitioning. And your clients. And it kind of builds a little bit about what we've been talking about last couple of weeks about building, making your client, your superhero, you know, taking the Halloween theme, and how do you become your own kind of hero through alter egos? And and then it all kind of built into this thing saying, okay, from that, how do we transition clients to, you know, to be a part of their life over the long term, your long, long term. And so that is something called life stage transitioning, and now you can do it not only for your family, but more importantly for you business owners out there, you can do it for your business.

So what does it mean exactly? life stage transitioning?

That's right, the best easiest way I'll explain it would be think about hopefully, and you don't even have to have had a child I'm going to teach you if you're if you're in the market for you know, getting married one day and having children I'm going to tell you about a transition stage a transition period. And it happens to all of us when you have a baby. So, and I'll talk about let's talk about brands and how smart they are as it relates to diapers. And so they do a perfect job at creating transitions, but they do a almost an entire life stage transition over the course of just two years. So imagine you, your wife or whatever, or you're with your husband and you go to the hospital and then you have this newborn baby and all of a sudden you figure out this baby poops and they poop a lot. You know, that's the so you have to go and get diapers of some kind. So when you go out to the store, you will find that I can remember doing this man, you go to the store, you don't know there's Huggies, there's Pampers. There's generic brands, there's cloth versus, you know, plastic and then there's all these different sizes, it's very difficult to figure out what size right? So what you do is they actually size up the bringing or the diapers by like a stage of life. So you first off with like newborn and then usually you're at the hospital give you some newborn, or are you with us as a preemie right? But you have newborn and then from there you go from newborn to infant like a couple of weeks later, and then there's a whole bunch of boxes around you know infant, and then from infant you go to baby and that may be you know a year in so there's these baby diapers and then eventually hit toddler diapers then if you think about toddler diaper You're talking into pull ups and like kind of disposable pants right until until your child is potty trained, and what brands do and the best brands, Pampers Huggies cetera, they transition mom in a very smart way so that she only looks at Pampers. And we're a Pampers house. And I'll talk to my wife about this. For two years, Pampers did an incredible job of taking every week, a whole lot of my money to transition my child from one level to the next stage, the next stage the next stage. So, I mean, so much, if you if you've done this, I know I know, I there's many times where we ran out of diapers, and I can't just go to the store and pick up an alternate brand, Steve, you know, that is not, your wife only wants Pampers. So you're taking three grocery trips to try to figure out an open grocery store. So you can find Pampers because you're because you'll get that terrible Look, if you went outside of that, that's massive trust, that's massive loyalty, because there's a lot of emotion around that you want the best for your baby, I'm telling you that you can for your company, use this same behavioral psychology principles to make these transitions into your customers. But rather than doing over the course of two years, the technically I guess you could, you can transition customers from 18 to 75 or 80 years old. And think about the lifetime value of somebody that you've had in as a customer for, you know, the better part of 50 to 60 years, it's huge upside, and it's not that difficult to pull off.

So what are some good examples? How we can do that? Yep.

So one of the ones I was I was thinking about would be, I'm trying to think of a product or services that are needed throughout somebody's lifetime. And so I think that's the best way to go is start really broad. And, and I'll even talk about my company where it's much shorter. But let's talk about broad, and let's talk about financial services space. So if you are a financial planner, you know, and you're basically your job is to bring in assets, you know, so your local financial planner, you may be independent broker, whatever, but your idea is you're trying to gain somebody's assets for retirement planning for their retirement to eventually, you know, they've accumulated wealth, you've helped your clients accumulate wealth to a point to where they're retired. And then you start think about legacy planning and things like that. So in that case, your ideal situation would be to attract a new client. Um, for most of us, I don't know how true this is. But I've talked to enough financial planners to say that most people start retirement planning with a typical 401k, that their first employer sets them up, and they don't really even know how to even use it, but they know that they should be investing. Now a lot of people don't invest, we know that it takes some people don't start investing for the retirement until their 30s or 40s, or 50s. Guys, you should always invest in retirement, especially if your company's going to do a match, right? It makes no sense not to. But fact matter is the best client is that first time somebody leaves their very first job, they have a small, little 401k, maybe a couple grand in there. And now all of a sudden, they're like, I got to do something with my money, because you know, I'm no longer at my first company. So that's the first transition period, I'll put my air quotes here, your first transition period, if you're a financial planner, that first life stage, that you now start thinking about, how can I bring this person's assets in? So that's the very first one, then imagine really high level right? Then imagine somebody comes in there with you, and they're giving you a little more bit more money, they're giving you extra money, you know, as they go into middle management. And then there's this other big transition, usually, that happens, whether you're going to you know, get married or start a family, that's usually a transition period for financial planners, where they're thinking about, you got to set up college education, or maybe retirement plan for you and your spouse. And then lastly, of course, a major one is the the one where you are close to retirement. And that's a huge transition for financial planners, right? Because they now have to all the assets that they've collected and hopefully manage, they now are about managing wealth on your behalf so that you can have a, hopefully a nice steady retirement.

So it means that we're sitting down and starting to kind of create a map of the customers key life stages. So when I think of my business, yep, you know, first of all, our client comes in, and you will, you will relate with his experience. First, they're like going, I need to get my act together, online. And so there that can mean many things. And so we work on getting our fundamentals in place. Then next, we want to take them into a campaign mindset. We want to start thinking, Oh, I need to create campaigns, and how can this support my overall strategy, and then the next step, which we're doing right now is creating a thought leader out of this person. So the lifecycle is, Hey, I think I need a website, to, oh, now I need to run campaigns. And now I need to start becoming the thought leader that I am creating unique content that shows my insights that really helps people connect with me.

That's right, and think about me as your client, Steve. And at first, you know, at first, I don't know if I trust you, because we just started a relationship. So we got to kind of move slowly, just like you're dating, right? There's no difference, we're kind of dating each other, trying to see if this Steve guy's gonna deliver and then you get some wins, you earn a little bit of trust, you win a little bit of trust, then from there, you take the next step, and you kind of date exclusively, right. And then finally, you know, then you create a relationship where there's mutual value, mutual respect, you're a trusted business ally. And I think for anybody in the business world, that's ultimately what you want to become, you want to become a trusted business ally, not to where I'm only thinking about Steve, as it relates to marketing, but I'm going to see for business advice, I'm going to, hey, there's a partner out there that thinks what do you let me run something by you, Steve. That's the best relationship honestly. And not just from a financial perspective. But that's what you want in life anyways, you want to have be friends, you want to work with people that you love, and you want to have mutually beneficial, respected, trusted relationships. And that's kind of the secret to you know, having a great great company is building that trust. And there's a process just like I said, start off with just like you said, is the map start off with a map.

But what I love this is just too great how it circles in. So when I think about how am I going to identify their core motivation and approach to your category within each life stage? Well, guess where that takes us? It takes us to what their mind state is in each of those. And that changes over time. Yeah, Mister mind state expert. what's right, let

me give you an example. Right for let's let's do finance, the financial planner. Let's just keep with that idea. So you're a financial planner out there. You're an advisor, and this 25 year old guy calls you up, it's his first job. And he says, Okay, listen, um, you know, my mom has been doing some business with you, she told me to give you a call, because I've got a rollover my 401k. And I don't know what those terms mean. So what happens is, we know this is that in your 20s, and you really don't know a lot about investment, you really don't know a lot about even money. A lot of kids out there just don't know a lot about money and how to manage it yet. They are motivated actually by scarcity almost they're fearful. They're they're fearful that am I wasting my money? Should I am I wasting money now? Why am I shooting for retirement when I'm in my 20s that's so far away. So really younger people, they're cash strapped oftentimes high debt, low revenues, or low income. So they're driven by security, and they're cautious in nature, they just tend to be until they get enough salary. And they have a better feel for how to kind of maintain their monthly budget, then so let's just say that's the you know, that you now know what somebody in their 20s likely are motivated by, don't let me lose money. That's really what it comes down to. Don't let me get screwed in the market. And don't let me lose money. Well, then as you become a little bit more successful in your career, you'll find that the motivations change, and now all of a sudden, you feel kind of comfy with your money, I've got a relationship with my advisor, he hasn't lost him, you know, 10s of thousands of dollars or whatever. So then you start thinking about wealth accumulation. This kind of happened to me in my mid 30s. So there's a long transition period, but in my mid 30s, that's when I got married I started you know, we started sitting down the financial advisor because I was bringing assets from my wife and myself together financial advisor says hey, you really guys haven't really saved a whole lot for your retirement you start thinking about wealth accumulation. So now all of a sudden I'm driven by success and I want to get more money right more for my money I'm going on trips now. So success is a really big deal. And I started thinking in my terms like his job is to help me get the highest rate of return on my assets on my on my stocks on my portfolio nothing sophisticated but just I'm looking for I'm more risk I'll take on more risk. So that is a kind of a totally different mind state. I'm driven now by success and high returns because I still think I got 2025 30 years in the market if there's a recession It's okay if I'm, if I'm, if I'm too much in the market have too many stocks, I'm okay because I got 30 years. Then what happens is as you get older, you may have some children maybe not, but when you get close to retirement, you have this nest egg, they talk about the nest egg, and your you get actually kind of a little bit nervous about the the nest egg. He said okay, I want you to take me a little bit more out of the market. You got to be in the market a little bit, but I want you to help me control my money. And that is all around the empowerment mindset. Right? So it's all about Control of money. So imagine. And then now you may think about legacy planning, how do I get make sure that my assets and when I when I, when I die get to my kids, right? So it's all about controlling this world that hopefully you've saved up for 30 4050 years, making sure that money is used wisely. So now imagine the different types of products and services by those three life stages. Imagine the way you should communicate to me the words you use, the visuals you use, are going to differ by each of those. And even the experiences that you provide on your website, technically, you know, could be different or should be differently, maybe one of the first things you would do as a financial planner is, you know, have something that would, that would direct somebody to the correct feel, look and feel and products and services for that life stage. that somebody that somebody is in, because that's how you're going to build trust, if you're talking about maximizing returns, maximize returns to a kid who's 22 is scared about losing money that might that it's not going to resonate very well. It's just it doesn't feel like wait, this guy's he's trying to get my money. So you put it on the market. I don't feel comfortable with that. So that's why it's so important to understand these mind states by each of these transitions, because your job is going to be as you figure out that your customer is about to transition, help them make the transition with you, just like Pampers does, and did with my family. When it was time to move from infant to baby. That was our Yeah, baby. They have a transition plan. They're sending me emails, they send me emails, the boxes themselves, were telling me that I should maintain pamper Pampers into the next stage, just by the graphics on the box. So they're even lined up in the grocery store in that way. So I knew exactly when the diapers I was supposed to change over to the new type of Pampers that we needed for my kid.

See, you know why that feels so good to your brain is because you remember that time you went to a wedding or you went to some function, and you got there and it wasn't quite organized. So you're standing around and you, you finally look at your spouse or whatever you go, what are we supposed to be doing?

Yeah,

you remember that?

I do.

And is it it's like, that's really important for us to know what we're supposed to be doing next. And that's exactly what you're illustrating here. And a business case?

Yeah, like we say it in the book. And we say you're not talking about it all the time. We don't like to think you know, so we don't think as much as we think we think we don't, we want to be guided. We want to be guided now we want to be guided and then be able to have our our ability to say yes or no. But when you're just sitting in the wedding and you're like are we supposed to stand yet or not stand? Am I turning around to look for the bride yet? You're at you want the officiant to tell you what's next. And what do you do? The officiant comes in, whether it's a priest, a rabbi, whatever, and sets the stage and controls the variables that bring you comfort. And when that officiant does that, while you're like, we need that for our wedding babe. And so it's a great analogy. I like the wedding analogy.

Want to pause here just for a moment and talk to you about a program that we have just released called ROI quickstart Academy for authors. Every day, I talk to business owners just like you who struggle with quickly getting their fundamentals in place. We want to create a great foundation and we want to grow our business. But the things that are in our way, our lack of knowledge about the specifics we should put in place, what kind of technology what kind of messaging and what kind of campaigns and that problem exists for authors as well. And we just chill so good with authors because, well, I'm an author, and I understand everything that you struggle with, you have a great idea you have a great book, but what do you want to do you want to get your book in front of more people, you want to make it easy for them to find you learn how they can schedule a time to talk with you hire you for a conference, or maybe sign up for the services that your book promotes. So what is the Quickstart Academy for authors? managing working with a small group of like minded authors and the experts from the ROI quickstart team, it's a great way to get your messaging clear to be confident with the technology in your marketing automation, and how to run a strategic campaign to get you more of what you want from the investment of your book. To learn more about the Quickstart Academy for authors, you can visit ROI online.com or click in the link in the show notes below. And now back to this episode. So the the predictors using predictors to adapt your offerings and messaging what how do we sometimes close to our stuff. So what's like a good process to start to reveal these things?

Yeah, I'll go to what I do welcome back to financial services, but also do tell you what I do for my company. Because I also try to do the same thing with my company. So a financial planner, if, for instance, you know, you have this 20 year old, and you're not going to put a lot of effort because their assets, let's just be honest, their assets are are small, you're not going to be trying to give this 20 year old or 25 year old person, you know, a monthly call, it just doesn't make sense, there's something new to talk about. But what you do is you go to LinkedIn, and you would LinkedIn, connect with them. And then in LinkedIn, you can actually put in a notification when something happens with somebody's job title to give you notification. So if I'm a financial planner, and I've got, you know, let's say 300 different clients that I've, you know, brought in over the last decade, I would have notifications. So every time, their job description changes, or they moved on to the job, I get a notification that tells me to just go out and reach out to them, hey, I want to see how things are going. Right? That's a very simple thing you can do. Or a second thing you could do for this for any company is I'm just literally put in the calendar, an appointment, whether it's with your client, or it's just an appointment for you to say, hey, reach out to this client, but haven't been consistent. So you're checking in every six months. And I've had years where I forgot to do that. And often you look up and it's like, this is 18 months, and I haven't talked to this client, this is an awkward conversation, because they're like, hey, know what happened? Like, we're not really in some sort of relationship you haven't called me or we haven't interacted in 18 months? Well, how do you do that you put it in your calendar, guys, it's a simple thing to do. Um, one thing I do online, so I've lots of clients all over the world, I put notifications on not the person themselves on LinkedIn, but I'll actually put it on the business. So let's say if I have a client at PepsiCo, I'll put a notification for news from Pepsi Co. And every couple of days, I'll get something in the news. And let's say, you know, if you see something in the news, and, you know, PepsiCo launches a new brand of flavored water, that sometimes will remind you, oh, my gosh, I haven't talked to this guy. And I, this was about, you know, a couple months ago that we did a flavored water project or a beverage product. It's a very simple thing now to reengage that person say, hey, congratulations on the launch, not that you're trying to sell, but you're just creating that human connection. And so that's just something very simple. And the last thing if you don't use LinkedIn, or whatever, guys, Google Alerts, it's the easiest thing in the world go and create a Google Alert. And you can alert on the person that isn't as successful. But Google Alert again on the company. And then when that company something news comes out in the company, you get a notification on email, I get mindset. Every morning, I look at the alert, vast majority of time, I just delete them nothing good that I need. But every so often, like, that's a great news story or whatever, let me go reach out. So that's a very, very simple way to find these transition moments.

I love the LinkedIn example that using it, that's so true. And we get those in like, okay, go Congrats. And then that's it. But to view them as a potential life stage changed, then that's, that's a beautiful way to take advantage of that tool to give you business, Intel, to start to mind.

Yep. And if you built up that trust relationship, they want you to do that they don't want it like somebody transitioning to, you know, middle management to an executive, they now you can, you know, if it's a large corporation, they have a lot of new a lot of new assets, and but they don't have the skills possibly, or maybe the competence to know what to do with them. So if you're not going to somebody, you've been managing their money for a while, and you're going to let somebody else randomly call that person, you get those calls like I do, I get those LinkedIn requests, or those calls every month, where it's some financial planner that says they are going to grow my wealth, and they're going to be a wealth manager, all sorts of things. And if I haven't talked to my guy, in a month, or I'm sorry, in a year, then it makes it you're more open to that idea. So don't let that happen. Transition your clients into the next level of engagement, and then offer the products and services that makes sense, you're not going to build wealth management products for someone who just starting a 401k, you're just gonna give them what they need at that moment, which is most important to them, then migrate them into products or services that they want to have, because they're in a totally different life stage.

I can see where even that would work in the real estate industry. Yeah, there's probably some good data that tells you, you know, people, change their homes every so many years. And to be able to understand, if they bought a starter home from you, then the next step is going to be a family more of a family oriented home. That's that so you could be watching and when they're posting about they had a new baby, then you know what's going to happen at some point that baby's going to create the need for more space. Mm hmm.

That's right. And so you know, It's funny, and you said that so I have had four real estate agents in my life. So I moved four times, well, where I needed an agent. I only know one of those agents. Why? Because, and this was from my first home. So we're talking 25 years ago, 25 years ago, 20 years ago, because he has an annual Christmas party and I have never gotten his Christmas party in 20 years. In fact, I don't I don't know where it is somewhere down in Dallas. But I remember him why because he sends out a little card and what he's really doing if he's smart, me, I'm certainly he loves me as a client, but he hasn't made money on me in 20 years. But I now he has, he has at least I go to thinking about him thinking, hmm, if I actually go to that Christmas party, he may actually if I was to go, he would actually know them in different lives, talk to me, whatever. Or if nothing else, I'm he's every I can guarantee you every year and I'll get my invitation and I'm next couple of weeks out, he'll remind me that this guy is in downtown Dallas, he thinks enough of me just to give me a postcard in the mail. It's something so small, I don't want another real estate agent that does that. I don't. So, I don't know, it just seems like a simple thing. And I'm sure you do it, dude. I mean, I do it for my clients to remember I talked about the financial planning side of it. Well, you know, we're talking, these are long, long runways, a lot of you guys out there, you know, you don't have 80 year runways with a client, right? I or you don't yet. But think about the same idea in a client engagement. So if you were to find me, Steve, most people find out about me through my book marketing in mind states. That is my first kind of touch point. And so in that, but I sell services, marketing, Research Services, and consult on marketing communications, much higher dollar value, much more interaction. But what I find is, I have to build that trust. Through these stages. Even though these aren't life stages, these are stages of our relationship together. So we offer a starter pack. So if you were to just buy a book on Amazon, or you wandered into my website, somehow, because you saw this, you don't know anything about me? Well, there's a very low price Starter Pack where it's a do yourself basic package, right, you buy the book, you buy some work, some a workbook, some instructions, very low cost, and low risk. But then from there, if I've done my job, right, you're gonna say okay, but I want greater depth. Well, now we're starting to work on our master class. And so our master class a little higher price point. But now it's now we're starting talking about video courses, and much more, you know, hours and hours of training. With me showing more examples, things like that. Little bit more interaction with me a little higher price point. But I've hopefully earned my way, it's a totally different transition that transition from a totally do it yourself book, where you're not quite sure you may some people do great with the book other people, it's like, I want to take it to the next step. I've transitioned them into my middle price point. And then for some people, if you come into the master class, you're like, No, well, I want to, I love the master class, but I want to do with my data for my company, I don't see another company, well, then there's a workshop. And so we do these monthly workshops we're having one next week. So we do a workshop. Again, it's hard to get somebody to take on a workshop as a first interaction. But if you go from the book and transition them from the book to the master class, and you take something from the master class and transition them to the workshop, now if you do the workshop, you're going to know you're gonna have, you know, a day with me interacting one on one. Next thing you may do is say, this work, bookshop is great, but I want to do a piece of research, I have a company that does the research, or I want to do, I want to actually work with you to do a training seminar for me, in my entire marketing group in my agencies, we have a much higher price point, very specific unit for you to do that. So those are just simple three transition points that give me a lifetime value of a client that may only be about two, three years. But in that two, three years, I've taken them from a duel yourself kind of know this guy all the way to you're interacting with me, I'm in front of your cmo, and we're working together to get you much better marketing creative.

Yeah, like that. So in that marketing, mindset marketing workshop, so give us some ideas of what that looks like, help us imagine what's happening in there.

That's right. So for two days, you're going to go through all the principles in the book marketing the mind states, but in a highly interactive, engaging way. So on day one, which is next Tuesday, you spend the day learning the science behind behavioral psychology and how important it is to incorporate behavioral psychology principles into your marketing and we teach you the mind state marketing model, which is what the book teaches you as well. So Day One is a lot of science, but it's actually kind of fun. I show a lot of commercials. We do. We do. to kind of do an interactive activity where we are talking about a real life company called wicked crisps that I will show you the exact data we collected, and how we were able to identify what's called a mind state. And then we end day one with here is the mind state. So think of the day one is kind of like the understanding, then we come back the exact next day, and we say, Okay, now that you understand the mind, state, what do you go do with this, then we teach you how to apply all these principles into your marketing creative into your website, etc, packaging. So we actually take you through that same case study, but show you even with the creative director I used, when we designed this entire brand, we sit down and show you step by step how to use one of these blueprints. And we're talking about a mindset marketing blueprint that tells you from strategy down to tactics, how to apply these principles that you learn in day one, and you're going, you're watching the wicked, crisp case, study come to life, until we finally have an interview process with the creative director. Then lastly, we say we're going to stop, you could be selected, if you're in the workshop, put your creative up on screen, and you and I will go through it together real time. And we'll look at we'll adjust your creative based upon where you think your customer, what mind state they're in. So it's kind of a really fun engaging way of, you know, in one two day session, if you will, learning all the principles that we outline in the book and apply it to your business for the very first time.

So I'm always curious, there are these powerful words that you can consider to start baking into what you're doing in your copy. And this is just off the cuff. But you know, while you're talking, I'm wondering, what are some like little examples of a few words that we could consider to start trying to, to weave into our copy? on our website, our conversations, etc?

Yep. So you know, the book will tell you a lot of different options. And then the words will come from two parts. One will be what motivates your customer. And the next one will be kind of their approach. Are they cautious in nature? Are they optimistic in nature. So just by doing that, you can get two very simple words right now. So let me give you an example we have been talking about, let's go back to the financial planner. And let's say you're a financial planner, or any customer out there, but you know that your client, maybe it's b2b customer, and your client needs success, they need to grow revenues really quick. The word grow is an important thing you should be putting in copy, right grow. Success, advancement, proud, you know, because people who want to feel successful desire to feel proud, um, but then it even goes from there to things like Um, let's see, independence would be a word because an achiever or somebody who desire success, oftentimes they desire through independence, or they feel as if they are successful in and of themselves. So success, chances, seizing opportunities, these are all words, that if you knew nothing else, but you know that your your customer is desiring success, that those words would be great to put in copy. Then if you said, well, is my customer, are they optimistic? Or are they more cautious? If they're optimistic, you would use words like things like reach, progress, improvement spread? Hope you want. But let's say if they're cautious, they want to be successful. They look at the world as like, hey, the only way to be really successful is be cautious. Be very careful with with your steps, because risk can actually cause you to not be successful. When this way, this word this we're in this type of person, you'd use words like accurate, I'm careful. Um, let's see concerned, vigilance, precision, truth, all these different words that still make you feel like it's through precision that somebody can be successful, see where I'm going. So they're exact words you can use to where if somebody did feel success, but they wanted to be optimistic, those words would feel natural, then they would make you feel like you're trusted, they should trust you. Or if they were cautious and use a second set of words, they would feel like yes, I trust you. Because you kind of know success comes from vigilance, and it comes from being careful. So those are very simple words you can do right now go to your website, start dropping those words where they make sense and that will make your website feel more kind of intuitive and natural and a part of how they think.

then going back to the stages that your your client transitions from over the lifetime of their engagement with you then you would start to bake in a different version. have that same process for each stage that they're going to go through?

I think so I think so, or at a minimum buy service. Because if you think about your services, like my services, that starter pack, it's a 3999. starter pack, right. So I know that somebody is probably they don't really know a lot about me, they may be more do it yourself in nature. So I will have a services page. And the way I speak to you, if you're going to go into my starter pack is very different than the way I'm going to speak to you if I'm going to try to talk to you more about a two day workshop, where we're going to be engaging together very different language. So at a minimum, it's like, I would think you'd want to at least create a different services page, or at least a section on your services page. But the words you use by each of those should differ. Now, they should be on brand. So you want to be careful, we don't want ever like walk away from brand, your brand stands for something, you have a story around your brand. But the words you use can still tell that story in a way that's intuitive and natural and not alienate your brand, from kind of the person who's on your website.

I love that. So tell us some more your mind state marketing workshops, kicks off next week,

it kicks off next week, you can go to mindset group.com. And you can learn all about the workshops. It's it's really inexpensive. For $700, you get a copy of the book marketing mind states, you get a workbook, you get a charter, you get a blueprint that'll teach you how to use this, you get a recording of the video, you possibly will get the audit of your own worksheet, I'm sorry, your own marketing. And you also get access to the recordings of all of it for 30 days. So I'm and there's other agencies, there's other companies there. So you can interact with as well, because we're all kind of doing this as a team. So it gives you the ability to actually meet people who are also in the same stage of business are doing like things trying to grow their business using payroll psychology, to advance you know, our to improve their marketing creative. So it's two days of fun and learning, lots of breaks, guys, and lots of kind of activities. So you're going to be doing the work yourself. So you walk away knowing exactly what you need to go do on your work on your website.

All right, we'll leave so mine states temporary, but they also govern our long term overall desires of life stages. And so by starting to map out a way to see how the lifetime value the lifetime process that a client would spend with you and start to design your experiences around those are going to be very impactful. great examples are the diaper brands. Huggies your Huggy house is that

don't bring that into my house, sir. Pampers.

Yep. So by by creating those steps, creating lives life's stage transition plan. I think that's an excellent way to look at how to take advantage of these mind states that you're designing around these now. And then you can learn more about this in the workshop, the mind state marketing workshop, you can find all the info you need, at the mind, state group.com Don't forget to get the book marketing the mind states by will Leach you'll learn how to use science to connect to clients. And this has been another excellent episode of the mind state marketing hour with will Leach. All right, well, we'll see you next week. And that's a wrap.

Thank you much Dave.

Thanks for listening to another fun episode of the ROI online podcast. For more be sure to check out the show notes of this episode. And feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn where we can chat and I can help direct you to the resources you're searching for. To learn more about how you can grow your business better. Be sure to pick up your copy of my book, The Golden toilet at surprise, that golden toilet.com I'm Steve Brown, and we'll see you next week on another fun episode of the ROI online podcast.