[Special Episode] The Mindstate Marketing Hour #19 with Will Leach - The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 89

Hey, everybody, welcome to a special series of conversations sponsored by the ROI Online Podcast with Will Leach. He's the author of Marketing To Mindstates, the practical guide to applying behavior designed to research and marketing. And in these conversations, we're going to deep dive and explore all the insights from wills book, as you learn how to use science to connect better with your clients. I'm Steve Brown, and here we go. We're live Will!

We made it! Another week.

Will, how are you man?

I am doing great today. It's been a good week. So far, a little bit cloudy here in Big D. But other than that, you know, it feeds the grass, I'm okay with that. How are you, my friend?

I'm doing well, I've been kind of windy here in Little A. So we're having a calm morning. So I'm all ready for this great conversation about using anchoring to increase your prices, and elevate your perceived value at the same time. This is The Mindstate Marketing Hour with our author Will Leach and who wants his book, it's Marketing To Mindstates, the practical guide to apply behavior design to research and marketing, or as I like to say how to use science to connect with your clients. And so today, tell us a little bit about why, Will, why did you want to talk about using anchoring to increase your prices and elevate your perceived value?

You know, it is the time of year that we all sit down and we think about our businesses. And we kind of just get nervous and say, you know, I've got to increase prices, I have not increased prices on my services for a number of years. And it's awkward and makes you feel nervous. You never want to go back to your clients and say, Hey, listen, our prices are going up. So we try to mask, we try to hide it, a lot of us just avoid it. This is the time where it comes up to us every year we say Okay, are we going to raise our prices? And if you are like me, you are also hoping to raise your prices in the next coming year. And I said you know what, there is a good way to raise your prices by not just hiding it and just kind of having your customers find out that you raised your rates or your prices, there is actually a way to raise your prices and make your clients happy. And I'm going to do that through this concept called framing effects. And so that's what I'm talking about today how to raise your prices, but actually get your clients to say, Wow, that's a great value. Good to, Great that you raised your prices, kind of weird, but we can do it.

Are you sure you're not giving us a load of you know what? I mean, how can you get your your clients to be excited about you raising prices Will?

It is not a load of BS is a load of behavioral science. And yes, you can do it. Liked how I did that?

Science to connect with your clients. So I guess you're gonna tell us something about we got to have a place to start.

Absolutely. So let me just before we even start, how is your day going today? Steve?

You wouldn't believe it.

Good or bad?

Great. Why? Because today is live stream day. So I'm having these great conversations where I get to have a conversation like this one. But I learn so much on Thursdays, I was just thinking about it. So actually, you know, you're going to tell me some stuff and I'm going to get some energy from it because there's education involved.

I love that. So it's a good day. How would you rate today versus your very best day in your life? Like your very best day, think about the day that you're like, this was the very best day of my life?

Well, we're not there. I mean, that was like, I don't know, there was like something that happened that was unexpected that I maybe had hoped for. And then there we go, we acquired some aspirational experience that didn't expect

That's right and that is my point, guys. Everything, every evaluation you make, whether it's How are you feeling? Whether it's what cereal is a good value? Every time you rate anything? It's actually always always always relational. It is in relation to something else. So when you said Steve, you said today is a great day that is in relation to what something else is not so great. That's what made it great. There is no black, the color black without the color white. There is no good versus it's contrary bad. Your brain craves relations and understanding relations, it craves meaning, and how do you create meaning? It's in relation to something else. So here's another example, about how the brain can be influenced by a point of comparison. Famous study from Daniel Kahneman years ago. But basically we do, is he set up a scenario where we ask people, whether or not they would take on a surgery in two different scenarios. One scenario was like, Hey, 90% of people survived this surgery, same exact surgery, other people were told, hey, 10% people die from this surgery, same percentage, you know, mortality, right? But just by the framing of what you compare it to impacts dramatically, the number of people who said, I'm not going to take the surgery, if I have a 10% chance of surgery, I don't have anything to do with it, where other people are told you have a 90% chance of success, you're going to be fine with the surgery. More people like Yeah, I'll take the surgery. So your mind creates a this point of comparison. And in this point of comparison, I want you to start thinking about being diligent in your point of comparisons, because the mind your customers minds are comparing you to something anyways. So why wouldn't you take ownership of that? So I'll bring it to you, in another way, right? So think about COVID, COVID-19 deaths, and I ran out just before I did this, so I'm not gonna have exact figures, right. But think about how framing makes people feel whether this is a big deal, or not such a big deal. So COVID, right around now in the US, we've lost 400,000 people to COVID. That is a number and that is a staggering number 400,000 people have lost their lives, according to a couple of different data sources to COVID. Now, if you were to say how big a deal is COVID? Well, what is 400,000 mean in relation to what? If you were to relate COVID to, you know, in 911, on 911, we lost almost 3000 Americans on that day, in that case, versus 9/11. This is 133 9/11's. That is a very differently emotional response, like 133 9/11's, versus you take that same 400,000 figure, and you say, Well, there are 331 million people in America. And that only equals like point 00.1% of the population, how big a deal is COVID? See what I mean? The same number as how you frame it, or what you anchor it on, has very different meanings to different people. And that's why I think you see so much indifference on some people about COVID. Other people are like we have to survive. If you think about 300, or 133 9/11's, that's a very different emotional response, then it's point 00.1% of the population. That's the power of framing, and your mind does it all the time, it's always trying to figure out meaning and we create meaning through what we anchor against.

Yeah, you know, I have a lot of conversations with business owners, and my challenge is I have to change their perception of what their solution is to over to what the real solution would be for them. And it's hard because they've been basically brainwashed by people who call them all the time and say, Hey, I don't know anything about your business, but I can get you up to the top of search, whether that's the best thing for them or not. And my challenge is, how do I get their mind off that over to the real solution of a holistic system that would be evergreen and more valuable instead of a temporary tactic? So how do we do that Will?

Yeah, towards the end of this conversation, I'm gonna tell you exactly how to do it. But it all starts about this idea of exactly don't leave your anchor to chance. Let's talk about that anchor. And if people see you as Oh, I build websites, that's a very different anchor than No, I create marketing systems that allow you to continuously grow and scale your company. And what we got to be careful about is that if you're not telling your customers what to anchor against, they will anchor to something and in this case, it could be one of your competitors saying, ROI Online? Yeah, they build websites, I could do it for half the cost. That is a very different anchor. So you need to control that anchor, do not leave your anchor to chance. Because again, it influences everything. Let me give you another example of an anchor, and why if you don't think about how this stuff works for your business, how it can influence so again, another famous experiment by Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky. And what he did was he brought a bunch of people into a room and he had people spin a roulette wheel, but individually spin a roulette wheel, so but the roulette wheel was rigged. And what happened was it was rigged to it was always set to reach the number 10 or the number 65. It was one of those two numbers, it was always going to be rigged to hit 65 or number 10. So he had people spin the roulette wheel, it hit one of those two things, they went away, they walked into another room in that other room there asked one question, they said, How many countries are in Africa? Now, a lot of people don't know much about Africa. And so they had to take a guess. And as you can imagine, where I'm going with this, those people that spun the roulette wheel, and that they were given the number 10 is this, you know, as the number that, you know, the ball landed on, those people tended to have around, you know, maybe 20 to 25 countries, about 25 countries or in Africa. same types of people, those people that actually where the ball landed on 65, they tended to say, oh, there's probably 50 to 55 countries in Africa. See how that one anchor point, that one little ball, that one number created a sense of organization for your mind to then create a guess a guesstimate. That's why you don't leave your anchors to chance, because you don't want a certain anchor, a number, or something that somebody else says, to create the perception of what you are near. Does that make sense? Yeah, happens to the best of us, so I always thought to myself, my gosh, these anchors matter. So, you know, I remember a very simple way of thinking about your value. And is this, I used to use this. And I think I was wrong. Back in years ago, somebody said, well, what's the value equation? You ever heard the value equation? What's the value equation? And I said, simply, it means that it is what you get divided by what you pay for. And if that is a good ratio, you have great value. That's not true. It is what you get divided by what you pay for in relation to something else. And that relation to something else is oftentimes non conscious. But you better own that in relation to something else. Because without that, there's no understanding of what value could be. And therefore you could be seen as very expensive if you're seen as a guy who just creates websites or a great value if I build a reoccurring revenue system for your company. So you can scale. Totally different perceptions. Totally different value equation.

So there's a little video maybe you want us to watch now, is that what you're thinking?

I do because right now we're talking pretty heady stuff. What I want to do is say, let's talk about, or let's show this video. It's a campaign with Mini Cooper vs. Porsche happened about 2010. And afterwards, let's talk about what happened go and play it.

Alright, here we go technical. Can Steve do it? Here we go. We're gonna play this.

Hello, I'm Jeremy Dell, and I'm the head of many in the United States. Now some of you may know that I worked at Porsche for eight years, and Porsche builds a fine automobile. I've had 12 of them. And without a doubt, Porsche builds a sporty car. Porsche builds a fast car, a Porsche will help you attract women when your hair falls out. Yeah, I know it all. There's one thing though, that I don't know about Porsche. Can a Mini beat a Porsche in a race? And I think we should find out. So Detlev von Platen, president and CEO of Porsche Cars North America LLC, I challenge you to a race. I think we need to find out which of us has the faster car. If Porsche wins, I promise that I will wear this shirt at my next public appearance. But if Mini is greater than a Porsche on the track, then I'll be wearing this shirt at my next public appearance. So Detlev, it will be you and me. mano a mano, your driver and my driver. And some automotive press I've invited and people watching it on the internet, probably a lot of them. And I did take out a full page ad in the New York Times. Let's do this Detlev June 21 2010 Road Atlanta right around the corner from your offices. I'll send you an E bite.

Alright, let's talk a little about what we just saw. Let me give you some backstory to this, is the way I understand it. So Mini Cooper is trying to make their introduction to the US market. And very quickly they discovered they were be compared to cars like Civics and Ford Fiestas. So in that relation, right your brain is trying to figure out, is a Mini Cooper a good car? Should I go buy a Mini Cooper? It's looking for how do I compare a Mini Cooper to what? So a lot of people are comparing Mini Coopers to Ford, like I said Ford Fiesta, maybe a VW Beetle, the smaller cars, and in that theme all a Mini Cooper looks like is maybe it's a cool looking car, but it's way overpriced. It's a very overpriced Ford Fiesta. So in that case sales are not going to go very well. So what do they do? They start in 2010, to campaign and actually won an Emmy Award for this campaign. So it's a big deal. That what they did was they said, No, no, they tried to reframe their point of comparison, they said, Don't frame us against a fiesta frame us against a Porsche. So they create this big ad campaign, and they basically challenge Porsche to a race. Now remember, the CEO of Mini Cooper USA, was a former executive at Porsche. And if you know anything about a Porsche versus a Mini, a Porsche will blow the doors off a Mini, no comparison. And he knows that, he's smart enough to realize that. But what does he do? He makes this challenge. And in that challenge, he gets a lot of press, he's trying to get a lot of people, and what does Porsche do? Porsche ignores it as they should! Like, why in the world, would I even, like go on and even play to the game of Mini Cooper? So they basically ignore it, they send a letter back saying we're not doing races for publicity, stunts, no thanks. So what do they do? They actually go rent that same track, right around Atlanta, Georgia, that's where Porsche USA is headquartered. And they actually have the race, Porsche versus Mini Cooper. And Porsche blows the doors off, Mini Cooper, like wins the half mile by eight seconds or something. It was an eight second difference, right. But what they then did is, after that race, they said, but for every second that the Porsche beat us, we can save you $10,000, right? So all of a sudden, they recreate his value comparison, right? They're trying to anyways, to say that they should be compared against a Porsche, they are a lower priced Porsche than a higher priced Ford Fiesta. And they won an Emmy Award on that. But that's the power of reframing and thinking about how do you want to be perceived in the marketplace? And how do you reframe yourself to maintain the advantage, I guess, of being seen as a value. And when you can do that, when you reframe yourself against a higher price competitor, or something higher priced in another different market in fact, you now have the ability to raise your prices without being seen as somebody who's raising their prices, you're still giving great value. It's all about comparisons.

That's awesome. You're listening, what's going on here? I got a little audio issue.

Oh, no. I can hear you fine.

Okay, good. So you're listening to Will Leach, he's the author of Marketing To Mindstates, and he's also CEO of Mindstate Group. Will, you got a fan that just wanted to say hi. So LinkedIn user,

Hello, LinkedIn user! Thanks for joining us, go raise your prices.

So when we were talking about setting the anchor, your comment here is, He who owns the anchor sets all price and the value perception, just like you showed us.

That's exactly right. I tell my clients all the time, a lot of my clients sell products inside of grocery stores or in some sort of a shelf. And I tell them all the time, he who owns the anchor owns value, he who owns anchor owns value, the number one most important piece of real estate, if you're trying to raise your prices, or if you are trying to, you know, be to even communicate your value proposition. It's not where you stand on the shelf, it is the first thing that somebody looks at before they get to your shelf, where they set that anchor, it's the roulette wheel, if you can control the roulette wheel, and what number they see, that is the point where people will compare your price to that. So I tell them all the time, whatever you can do to be the very first price or to control the very first price possible, that's what you want to do. So for example, let's say if you had a product for $1. And you wanted to raise that product to $1.50, the best thing you can do is show somebody a similar product for $3. And now all of a sudden, and if it's similar to yours, now your $1.50 product looks in relation to that anchor looks like a great deal. So that first number that people see on the roulette wheel, that first number people see and compare you to is the anchor, he who controls the anchor controls value perceptions. So it's not about creating more value by saying here are all the great benefits I have before I can raise my price. You just got to control what they compare you to and do it again and again and again until it's locked and loaded in their brain.

Hey, I wanted to pause right here and tell you about a book that you need to get today. It's the funniest book on marketing. It's called The Golden toilet, stop flushing your marketing budget into your website and build a system that grows your business. And guess who wrote it? That's right. I wrote it. And I wrote it just for you because I want to help you get past the last hurdles of setting up your business and getting it squared away. I wrote it so that you can avoid time wasting time, wasting money, wasting frustration, get the book on Audible, you can get it on Kindle, you can get it on Amazon, but get the book, take advantage of the insights in there and let me know what you think. And now back to this excellent episode. You know, you've heard that saying, you got to tell someone like seven times before they hear you. Well, the problem, why you have to tell someone seven times is you didn't employ an anchoring opportunity. And so in the title of my book, The Golden Toilet, I wanted to introduce an immediate way to get the brain to just slam on the brakes, and go, What? And introduce a reframe at that time. And so what I was wanting to do was everyone thinks that everything revolves around their website. But if you go, Hey, your website, it's just a toilet. You wouldn't have a house if it didn't have one. But when people come over, where do you hang out? You hang out in the kitchen, you hang around the patio, the pool. And so that was a way to introduce a reframe, and also to set the expectation of what we want to do to a different place. And so I love this conversation.

We all need an anchor that your brain can't make meaning unless you tell it what to anchor on, or it will find an anchor. So let's just be again, deliberate. And what I loved about what you just said, was this idea that you may have to tell it again and again and again. Because you know, we're creatures of habit. We don't always see things. You know who's done an incredible job at this? And here's a couple of brands I'll talk about, but who has done a great job of this, is Digiorno Pizza. So think about digiorno Pizza back in 1995 is when the genre is released and the story on Digiorno Pizza it was that they were the first to I think it was Kraft. They created a rising crust pizza dough, apparently in 1995 like that was like really innovative, right? I don't know, but it was really like if you can get your crust arise? That was huge. So what they did was they're like, okay, we want to release this new this new pizza. We have rising crust! But in 1995 Steve, the US I'm sure you don't remember you're a little kid back then. But in 1995 there was pizza's everywhere. You could go drive thru pizza at Pizza Hut. They had drive thru restaurants back then they're trying this concept. You could go to McDonald's to get a pizza, they made pizza, and they had every brand imaginable in the frozen pizza aisle. And then you still had Domino's, you had Little Ceasars, you had all these delivery pizzas. So America was going crazy for pizzas. And frankly, digiorno was late to the game. They just didn't get in the market. So they have a new innovation, though. So what do they do? They say, Okay, we've got this new innovation, we have rising crust, the traditional classic marketer would say, let's focus on the rising crust. Let's focus on our technology and how we have this great rising crust. And if you would have done that you would have been a slightly better version of a frozen pizza. What did they do? They did something very different. They said, they didn't do campaign, they did it through marketing. They reset their anchor and they said, Don't compare us to frozen pizza, we're delivery. Right? We're delivery pizza, compares to delivery pizza. And because of that, a very successful price point. So even to this day, if you go into Walmart on Fridays, we have pizza night on Friday's at the house, we watch you know movie night family night, we tend to do a lot of pizza on Friday nights. When you go into there and you see a Digiorno pizza, I promise you it looks like an overpriced frozen pizza because it's a frozen pizza. However, when you look at Digiorno, and it says it's not delivery, it's Digiorno. Delivery pizza's they're up to $20 now for a Friday or and get a Digiorno pizza for about 11 bucks, right? Very different comparison purposes. And because of that, they kept saying it again since 19, I think that campaign came out in 1996 or so right? They've been very consistent. They moved away from the campaign back in like maybe mid 2000s. But they've been very comparison for that 25 years, 30 years is a long time. It's not delivery, it's Digiorno. It's not delivery, it's Digiorno it's not delivery, it's Digiorno. And because of that they are compared not to all those terrible frozen pizzas. They're not a better tasting frozen pizza. They're a better value delivery pizza that you can make on your own terms. It has changed everything on that brand. That's a company that owned their anchor.

Yeah, Own your anchor. So what are some ways that we can own our anchor and start comparing our identity on those?

Yeah. So I've done this for clients before. So really early on, I worked with Chobani, as a matter of fact, when they were trying to introduce them themselves into the marketplace. So Greek yogurt, guys, there was a time a decade ago where nobody knew what Greek yogurt was, I know it's weird now. But exactly, people like in America were like, I don't know what to do with this. Even Yoplait back then, the French over was kind of, Oh, sexy, Greek yogurt, nobody knew anything about they didn't know how to eat it. They didn't know anything about it, they thought is it a spread? So Chobani is a very expensive yogurt, it just is. But it's higher quality, all those types of things, you want better quality, better taste, but it's a high quality, it's a higher price yogurt. So they were asking us for help around, How do we communicate our value proposition? We got to keep telling him that, you know, we have great organics and some of their stuff was organic, or that the creamy texture, and I said stop talking about the things that you are, you're never going to be able to convince people that you can double the price of their daily yogurt, like you just can't do that. You can't tell people there's enough benefit, or it's going to be way too costly. What you need to do is find in comparison to what and we went to the deli section of a store. So we've all went out, wherever over and over in Brooklyn, we all went over to a deli section of the grocery store. And we said what are the things in the deli that are comparisons? Like breakfast, what breakfast sandwiches are in the deli, or high priced things that people eat for breakfast? Like crepes or whatever, anything we could do to compare ourselves because we don't want to be compared to yogurt and Yoplait. And you know, those yogurts, that's terrible, right? We're always gonna be overpriced Mini Cooper, we went there. So first thing I want you to do is if you're in the situation, you want to raise your prices, you have to first find the anchor. And what you want to do is go find a higher priced service that you can at least fit into to show that you should be compared to that. Mini Cooper was also a car that they want to compare themselves to a Porsche, maybe around the same size. So it wasn't so far out of the realm of possibility. But you got to stretch your thinking, Steve, you're not competing against other people who build websites. That's ridiculous. You do so much more than that, right? So you never want to have that anchor on that. And that's why I love that the golden toilet, you need to anchor yourself on companies that drive great economic value and can help you scale a company and those people sometimes charge hundreds of 1000s of dollars to help you scale. That is a very different point of comparison. So you guys brainstorm on what products are out there that are similar to you, but charge a lot more money. Find those products first.

Wow. So our brains crave meaning. And so that's always in play. And yet we we fall for the trap of focusing on features and things. I wonder like, let's talk about just a pizza restaurant you love to talk about pizza. How do you anchor against someone other than focusing on the heat that you cook the pizza or something like that?

Yeah, I think that if you compare yourself to another feature, like we have better tomatoes, you may be able to charge a little bit more. But frankly, you're always gonna be in that feature set and the feature set is not a very good point of comparison. So what you need to do is say, Well, what do you really deliver as that pizza restaurant? What do you deliver? Yes, you deliver pizza, I got it. What else do you deliver? Well, you deliver an area where families can come together and spend time together. Okay, what else can you offer? Okay, well, in that family dynamic, I can actually create an environment where family not only comes together for a meal, but we can engage and talk. When you think about your restaurant as doing that. You're bringing families together to engage and talk and have a shared meal, you have just now expanded your consideration set into party events you consider into things, other types of restaurants, you can start thinking about entertainment venues, birthday party venues, etc. So the idea is think broadly about what you really provide, expand that a little bit and then find ancillary things that you can also compare yourself against, in that case, things like coffee shops, entertainment venues, movie theaters, all that kind of stuff. And I'm telling you, if you talk about bringing families together that is a much better proposition than we have better quality tomatoes or we can get your pizza to you in under 30 minutes.

I think that the Starbucks example of where they landed upon we're a place where you can sit and use Wi Fi. And this is your second home away at your office from home. Right? So they didn't focus on our beans or from, you know, Botswana or something like here's a place where you can hang out and do some business. And we actually have a little coffee, too.

That is a great, I love that example. Because when I first started, you know, my company, my office was the library, right? I couldn't afford office space, but they had free WiFi. And I'm telling you right now, it's so funny if you ever did, your first was success, so you never had to worry about this, I'm sure, right Steve? I can remember I get over to the library. And there'd be all these like seven or eight cars every single day, we're just waiting for the library open at nine and we'd rush the doors to go get ourselves a quiet spot in the library, right? So imagine what you're doing to Starbucks, I was not needing a cup of coffee at 9am, I needed office space at 9am because I had a call at

15. I should always schedule my calls, like 15 minutes so I could find a quiet place and get on the Wi Fi. What does that do? Well, that brings all those people into Starbucks. And like you said, they just expanded their point of comparison, we're not a coffee shop, we're an office space for you. Because of that I'll sit there for six hours, and you feel guilty. I'm sure you've done I've sat in a coffee shop. And you know, when I'm on a business trip, or actually I ran my business out of Starbucks for a while, and you feel guilty. So what do you do you buy a coffee every two hours. And even though you're so full of it, you just feel awkward, right? And it just brings in all the incremental sales on that Why? Because like, right, we establish ourselves as a office space versus we sell you Botswana coffee.

Yeah, there's a place where you can go anytime, you know, often at this one place. And you'll see the same crowd there. And they've part of their identity is they go hang out there. And then they start to see the same people and say hi. But it's just coffee. And the coffee is not that great. You can smell them, they roasted there. And it kind of smells burnt, but people hang out there, on a regular basis.

Yeah. And what they did, I never thought about that. So it's not just your office space. But now you've created a community of entrepreneurs that we can even come up with new ideas and talk to each other and community. That's what Starbucks is selling. In that case, they're selling community, they're not selling coffee. So I love it. And those people have those great memories of Starbucks, they'll pay more for that coffee, they'll continue to keep paying coffee. And frankly, even after if they go out of business, they still go to the same coffee shop and buy coffee. Why? Because they have a bunch of friends there. I love it. That's a great example of think Starbucks and how you can create this service, if you will, or this anchor to, you know, sell your business around it. But you got to be consistent. That's the other thing. You know, I think I said, you know, you'd said, How do you do it? The first thing is, you have to create that anchor, before you raise your prices, you have to create that anchor. And then you have to start doing it again. And again. And again. And again, until it's not delivery, it's Digiorno is tapped into your customer's mind. And when you do that as your other whoever your anchor is raising their rates, you should be raising your rates right along with them, right along with them and even raise your rates even more because you want to be perceived as a lower priced X than a higher price Y. Control the anchor guys do that raise your prices. And then when you're relating it to Well, yeah, other services that are like mine are $100,000 a year or whatever, but we only charge $35 your customers like, Oh my gosh, you know, so you're gonna go from 35 to 40. But boy, I'm getting a great value, you made them feel better about raising their prices. So you could say we're raising our prices to better serve you even better.

So we're talking with Will Leach. This is the Mindstate Marketing Hour and Will's author of Marketing To Mindstates, how to use science to connect better with your clients. So as speaking of communities Will, we've got a little announcement, you're launching a little community where people can come hang out, get some education. Tell us about it.

That's right. So you know, 2020 was a year like no others, we had to modify for our market, just like many of you out there how to as well. So we have a passion for small businesses, small businesses will be the next entrepreneurial middle class, that is what it's going to be if we all can actually help small businesses grow. That's what we started to do. Back in late 2020, we've changed a whole bunch of different services to make it more approachable and relatable to you. So we're going to have three different products that are launching here in the next week. Our first one is a starter package which is going to basically allow you to kind of tiptoe into Mindstate Marketing and how to psychologically optimize your messaging to get people to listen, care and act. So it's a very low priced $40 product that allows you to kind of just get into it, then we're actually launching a master class and our masterclass are for people that kind of already understand the basics. But what they're going to be able to do is watch me for hours, if you can bear it, of doing video based training of watching me how we do mind state marketing. So it's going to go through the book, but in a much deeper level, and provide you these Mindstate personas at their very end to where you can understand not only how to do Mindstate Marketing, but be able to look at personas to change your messages in the moment right then and there to optimize your marketing to drive sales. Then a final package is going to be, we're going to do a partnership program with people. So for $4,000 for the entire year, you're going to get access to all the video based courses, you're going to get access to all of our resources. But also you can get a one day workshop with me, where we're going to be working through your business to identify the psychological mindset that you should be using. And I'm going to teach you how to do an audit on your marketing in real time to actually implement mind state marketing. And then every month we're gonna get access to me for office hours, we can keep working together to modify your messaging for an entire year. So there's three nice little price points to get people to where, where they may just be starting all the way to Nope, I am a Mindstate Marketer, I want to optimize, I want to grow my business scale my business, and there's an offer for you there as well. So all that comes to mind state group.com in the next week, and looking really forward to starting 2021 with these new offers.

Will that's exciting. You know, every time I hop on here, and you make me smile the whole time we're talking. So today, I really love this topic that we've been, how to use anchoring to increase your prices and elevate your perceived value at the same time. We're just doing a little review here. He said, he who owns that anchor sets all the price and the value perception. So don't leave that to chance. You just need to figure out and evaluate anything without a you can't evaluate any other point of comparison. I'm making a br so our brain craves meaning. And guess what? That's your responsibility to give meaning to that. Will what's one thing we haven't talked about we need to cover before we let our wonderful audience go try to apply some of this themselves?

Well, I think it's just take time, I think that the biggest thing I would do, and I had to do this just last week when thinking about my prices, and thinking through how we're going to price these three different options is think to yourself, how do I want to be compared?And that, compared to a high price consultant that can come into your you know, into your into your shop, and give you scalability for $200,000 for the year, I'm a very great value, you need to do the same thing, compare yourself to somebody who's doing something a lot more expensive. And if you can do that, you're going to be much more valuable to your clients and customers Be brave. I know it's a scary thing to go to your clients and say we're going to raise our rates. And frankly, maybe some of those clients, you know, may actually say I'd rather you not but you got to try guys, you cannot sit here for the next decade and not raise your rates because you're scared to have these conversations. Just be smart in those conversations. Make sure you're anchoring to somebody else. Let your clients know that this is what you should be compared against and you're going to be no no problems raising your rates.

Hey, this has been an awesome episode of The Mindstate Marketing Hour where we're live messing up live in real time. At least I am trying to run this technology. Every week at the same time. We encourage you to tell all your friends come join us if you got some questions, send them in. And Will, we look forward to learning seeing those go live. Will Leach you've got a great guest. I'm Steve Brown. I'm the author of The Golden toilet, stop flushing your marketing budget your website. And we help entrepreneurs get their act together online. And often I work with authors just like Will to set up a platform where we can start connecting with perfect people like the folks that are listening live and reacting. So stay tuned for next week. Will, thanks so much, man.

It's always my pleasure. Looking forward to meeting with everybody next week. Tell your friends and Steve will talk to you in about a week.

Yeah, I look forward to have so much fun. That's a wrap. Thanks for listening to another fun episode of the ROI Online Podcast. For more be sure to check out the show notes of this episode, and feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn where we can chat, and I can help direct you to the resources you're searching for. To learn more about how you can grow your business better, be sure to pick up your copy of my book, The Golden Toilet at surprise, thegoldentoilet.com. I'm Steve Brown, and we'll see you next week on another fun episode of the ROI Online Podcast.