[Special Episode] The Mindstate Marketing Hour #24 with Will Leach - The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 104

Hey, everybody, welcome to a special series of conversations sponsored by The ROI Online Podcast with Will Leach. He's the author of Marketing To Mindstates, the practical guide to applying behavior designed to research and marketing. And in these conversations, we're going to deep dive and explore all the insights from Will's book, as you learn how to use science to connect better with your clients. I'm Steve Brown and here we go. The Mindstate Marketing Hour with Will Leach. I'm your co

You know, as a matter of fact, Steve while host or host, whatever you call me, I'm driving this deal but he man with the brains here is ill Leach. I'm Steve Brown and 'm excited, these are onversations I enjoy so much aving every week because he alks about stuff that is fun or geek. Will Leach is the author of Marketing To Mind tates. And as I like to say how o use science to connect with you're typing up the new ones, I had a guest who was watching it, our clients. Using the theory, oh, that was last week's episode. So let's go there. That was a great episode by the send me an email and said literally, he used, he showed me the email. And he put in the blanks he filled in the blanks. And what we said he goes, he got a client to jump off that fence. So you guys have a client who's on the fence not sure if they want to work with you. One of these guys who listened they sent me said Will, thank you so much I got this guy, or whoever was a client to actually signed a deal. So we helped out somebody last week,

We moved the needle in the American economy, because Will showed up and shared his brilliance and how to use science to connect and move your clients in the right direction. And today, we're going to talk about how to grow sales by helping customers feel more accepted. I was a little hesitant there, because it's making sure that wasn't title from a previous but that is in fact, the topic we're covering today, Will how's it going? And where did this topic come from?

Yeah, you know, so it is going great, great week here in Texas. Spring Break is next week so that's great. We're gonna head down south to South Padre Island for the first time never been down there, if you guys have any restaurant recommendations, let me know, just a couple of days gonna get a little bit warmer than it is here. And you know, the connection thing, it relates back to the book on motivations. But what I want to do over the next couple of months is talk about each of my nine motivations, but specifically for one episode. And so this one is centered around the belonging motivation that you guys would know from the book. But it's basically the idea that we desire to be connected with others. And you know, the first time people like, well, I don't know, really, I'm like, Well, I would just ask you, Steve, or anybody out there like name some of your best memories, like what comes to mind when I say one of the best memories ever? What comes to mind, Steve?

Well, when I was sitting in a dark closet, crying all by myself.

Thank you. That's a perfect setup. I appreciate that. If you're a neurotic like Steve...

No, but you're right. It's when we were having a blast, smiling like as big as we were now. Okay. That's when we feel safe and at home and it's with someone else

That's right. It's shared experiences. And it's funny because I was conflicted years ago when I was going through the motivation and you try to internalize this stuff. And some of my best moments have been when I was onstage by myself and I did something like o I remember this one time, I was in London, and I was at a onference and I was very new t speaking. And I was on this mall conference. And all of a udden, it worked out well, I had the applause it was great. I ended the conferenc so it was like five o'clock. A d then I went outside and a coup e people were saying hi to me a d everything else. And then I was by myself. And I remember t e elation, excitement of actuall doing this. And all of a sudde it came down, I was by myself on a rainy night in London, i 's raining. And I remembere myself How sad I was because I didn't have anybody to share the moment with, but that's why we d sire shared experiences. And co nection is especially importan for us as a community and as so ieties and so that's what I wan to talk about today. Because whether you know it or not your ustomers want to be in shared experiences and they want to con ect with others and if you ca create a business and rela ionships to help people connec , you're going to be in a great place.

So this topic is so timely and important because I think as a whole, the folks that are hanging around that are interested in these types of conversations, they're struggling to figure out how to build a community. They keep hearing, you need to produce content and connect with your community and grow your community. But they're like going, Well, how do I do that? But guess what? There's five psychological ways to make customers feel a part of your community, to feel accepted.

That's absolutely right, guys. And I'm going right to the behavioral science literature, to tell you how to translate that behavioral science literature into something that's more actionable. So at least one of these five, they're not steps, these are just one of these five, they're gonna relate to you in some way. And I think you're right, as it relates to the importance of belonging, right now, Steve, it's important because we're all feeling isolated, and your customers are feeling isolated, as well. And anytime you can get them to interact with others, you're going to be remembered. And ultimately, that's our job, make it human connection to be remembered. And I'm going to show you five ways you can do it.

So it's, our brains want to feel safe, and they want to feel understood. And this is why this is so important. That's just an innate human thing that we need to have. And so for a way for brand to nail these is a big competitive advantage, so number one

Number one thing you can do is help your customers gain and provide because sometimes we forget about that, but help your customers gain attention, acceptance, and support from others. And like I said, sometimes we think about, okay, how can I give my customer attention? And how can I show my customer that they're important, and they're accepted? And that's a big part of belonging, but also, to build a real community, you need to create mechanisms that allow your customers to also provide that same level of acceptance. And so it takes a little bit of brainstorming, but you know, it kind of comes down to this Steve, you and I are pretty close in age. I hope this reference can make sense to you, probably only to the old people on on the show today. But can you remember back in high school or maybe junior high for me and the big deal with like, Polo Shirts and Jakar Cologne right? The Members Only Jacket? I wanted a Members Only, they wouldn't accept me, Members Only wouldn't accept me. But guys, do you remember, why Polo Shirts? Now certainly, I think there was some esteem, right? You felt kind of cool if you had a Polo Shirt, but I can remember when you get to school, and you'd look around and you try to find other people with a Polo Shirt, right? And for whatever reason, because they were kind of elite or whatever you felt like you belonged in that. And I can remember even having a competition at my school in junior high. And Lord knows we couldn't afford, I didn't have the four legs on the horse for the polling, real Polo had four I had the three that came from JC Penney. It was a knight, It wasn't like the Polo guy, it was a knight with a flag, but it was close. And what that was really signaling is that we're a part of a group and if you could be a part of the Polo group, you felt good or Jakar Cologne, if you could afford Jakar Cologne, you smelled like that you were part of this group, even as superficial as it is, or the Members Only. But there's a reason why iconic brands are iconic. One of those reasons is that they bring people together from all disparate parts of society. And then they align them on to one thing, that they are users of this brand. And so iconic brands are using belonging all the time, even though they may not stand for that in their DNA. It's a byproduct of being iconic, it brings people together. And so, you know, if you're helping people, you know, to provide attention, you need to show a symbol for belonging. So sometimes that's a brand. Sometimes, you know, think about sports teams, there is a logo or there is, um, you know, thinking about when people are looking for something that signals that they're a part of a group, whether it's a handshake, whether it's the secret word, it's like, you know, a phrase that other people know a phrase, as well, there has to be some kind of a symbol that allows other people to recognize that you're part of the same group. So it's not just creating mechanisms to help your customers feel that they're accepted. You need a symbol to show other people that were in the same group. Okay, so try to figure out that could be your brand logo, that can be a soundbite. So recently, I've been using this word in my signature line, be compelling, be compelling, be compelling. And so I hope that in the future that as somebody says, be compelling that, oh, we know we're a part of a tribe, or another thing I know that you can do is to try to stand for something that you could place on a T-shirt. And for a while I was using this idea, and I still use it becoming a behavioral architect, or design for behavior. And what they say is that if you can put your mantra on a T-shirt, that's when you know, you can stand for a tribe. So that idea of like, Can you imagine if I saw something down the road, and I saw a T-shirt said be compelling. Or if I saw a T-shirt that said, I'm a behavioral designer, there you go. Like that is the symbol, whether it's words or a visual that can signal to others that we're a part of a group. So try your best to find a symbol words, something and be consistent to where other people can now form this in group because they know you're a part of this kind of inner circle.

You think about the logo. So when we, back in the day, when we lived in tribes, that's the way you could figure out whether you were in danger when you ran into another tribe or not. Because there was something that represented that tribe. And you either knew that this is a tribe we do commerce with, or this is a tribe that likes to cook us in a pot or whatever so we want to avoid that. And that's where that innate human thing that logos do for us and helps us discern quickly. If this is something that we want as a part of our identity.

I love what you said quickly, too, because remember, we don't like to have to think through, I don't know, I mean, like, look at all the five different things, I can look at Steve and I like some parts or other parts I'm not so sure about, it's the quick decision and the coat of arms. It's that one symbol that says, oh, we're together, we're together on this. So you know, a really important thing to do.

Yeah, so I love this. So number two,

Okay, so another thing you can do is allow for your customers to discover similarities and common beliefs. So a lot of times, what we do is we think as a company, we have to create this brand identity. And we need to make sure that all of our customers are associated and relate to only that brand identity. And that's actually not a bad thing to do, however, to really create a sense of belonging with your customers, allow for them to discover their own kind of unique qualities, or similar beliefs. So the idea here is that you want to try to help them to create their own identity in a social world. So that the more that they can relate to you, certainly around a symbol, but allowing individual people within the customer group to form their own group, allows even greater connectivity. So how can you help them discover similarity? So this is as simple as putting people together and having them talk, like try to form groups and times where people can share ideas, any kind of mechanism to share ideas. And as people talk, they realize, Oh, you're from California? I'm from California, I now belong to you even closer, or you have this shared passion? I have that shared passion. There's another connection. And the more you do get people to talk to your customers to relate or interact together, the more likely you are to help them create that connectivity. And they will always appreciate how 15 years later that we met when I was at The Mindstate Group Social. And so that's why you're doing that. It's not for them to be more related to you, it's so that they can find greater connectivity with themselves and you will become that mechanism that goes into long term memory. They'll always remember that you are the matchmaker.

You remember that time that you went to a conference maybe with someone else, and so you went to that conference, and you experienced something that you learned something that took away the fog in one area and give you clarity and you remember how you felt when you left? You experienced something together, you got a tool or some insight that empowered you and gave you this energy. And that is the value of community. And that's what you're talking about is that by allowing them to discover similarities and common beliefs together, you get the credit for it because you put them together and you let them through an experience that was positive.

That's exactly right. They'll never forget you, they'll never forget you. So get your customers to talk to each other. Whether that's through some sort of a app, whether that's to bringing people together and doing social forums, whatever it is, if you can get your customers even on a Facebook page to interact together, do that. So I know a lot of times I think we hire Facebook community managers or community managers to basically have these discussions with our customers. And that's important, no doubt about it. But what's more important is to have your Facebook community manager, have them interact with each other say, Hey, guys, we have this problem, what do you think? Can somebody share their ideas, and basically, honestly, the best thing you can do, if you're running a community of some kind is back away, let them talk to each other. And all the good things that'll come out of that will be associated with you. And then if something bad comes in, you step into stop that whatever that is, but you could stop things. But as there's something organic happening, step away, don't try to integrate yourself into it. Because then you become friction, you become a part of the process. Like why is the community manager talking like I'm trying to interact with Suzy, right? Step aside, create the system, get them talking, and then step away and just observe to make sure that everything's going well.

Alright, so what's the third thing, Will?

All right. So this third one is, if you're going to be long, and you want to get to the highest state of making people feel connected, help them become a meaningful part of a movement. And so it's one thing for us to find community and friends, it's another thing to know that we worked with a community of friends to help a broader community, a broader organization, more friends, right? So help them become something bigger than themselves, you do this through some sort of a movement, whatever that movement is, doesn't have to be this massive world peace movement, it can be something as simple as owning a highway, and making sure that a part of this highway, you know, one of these highway initiatives where you get to own a mile and pick it up, it's less important about the bigness of the movement as it is that the movement is something that everybody can share in. But there's a neat little trick to this, right? So we're all trying to become a part of a movement. And we make the mistake as businesses all the time that we make it very easy to join the fight, join the movement. So maybe you know, you sign electronic petition, or you know, you go on to Facebook, or you like a charity of some kind. And all of a sudden you get a badge of some kind. And a lot of companies like yes, we're building the movement. Not so fast. There is this concept called slacktivism. Have you ever heard of slacktivism?

Does is have to do with slack?

Bunch of slackers

No, tell me more about slackers. I gotta look this up.

Yeah, it's like a legit word. It happens actually in environmental, but it's across lots of different industries. So slacktivism is this, that sometimes when you make something so easy for somebody to become a part of a movement, whatever that movement is, if you make it too easy, once they sign the box, they check off the box, oh, I said, Yes, I like this, or I signed the electronic petition, they feel like their job's done, like I'm a part of a movement and they get to move on, they get the emotional benefit of checking off the box, but they don't actually act on actually becoming something bigger than themselves, they were just checking a box. So this concept of slacktivism is you have to worry about this. Because if you make it too easy for your customers to become a part of the movement, then they don't really become a part of movement at all but they get that initial emotional burst, but they'll never remember you for giving that initial burst. So you have to play a game here, you have to, at least at first allow people to become a part of a movement, something very easy for them to sign up. But you must now make them commit to something, whether it's a charitable donation, whether it's a sign up right now, and we'll contact you with a time to come out and support our cause or donate your time, something that gets them to take slightly more action. Because when you do that it becomes meaningful. So I was very purposeful, I said, help them become a meaningful part of a movement, not just help them become a part of your movement, because anyone could become part of a movement. The problem is slacktivism. And the worst thing on slacktivism is you may have a list of hundreds of 1000s of people that are saying they're a part of your movement, and then they never come back. They never interact with each other. Why? Because you gave them the part of the movement, you said they're part of a movement, you never expected anything else. So don't make it too easy for them, make them work a little bit and you can lower slacktivism and actually get people to engage and form those connections we're talking about.

Hey, I wanted to pause right here and tell you about a book that you need to get today. It's the funniest book on marketing. It's called The Golden Toilet, stop flushing your marketing budget into your website and build a system that grow your business. And guess who wrote it? That's right I wrote it and I wrote it just for you because I want to help you get past the last hurdles of setting up your business and getting it squared away. I wrote it so that you can avoid wasting time, wasting money wasting frustration, get the book on Audible, you can get it on Kindle, you can get it on Amazon, but get the book, take advantage of the insights in there and let me know what you think. And now back to this excellent episode. You know, as you were talking about that, I'm reminded of the book, Robert Cal Dini, where he does these studies. And it's called The Consistency Principle. So they do the first part that they call them, or they go by them, and they knock on the door, and they ask them, Do you consider the environment as something that we need to protect? And then the person will declare, oh, yes we believe that, then later, to get them involved, and to donate to a environmental issue or whatever that may be. If you come back around, then this thing called the consistency principle kicks in, and this is how you can overcome slacktivism is you have to do the next step. And you have to go Okay, so to be involved if it is that you like environmentalism activities, then would you commit to donate? And the percentages go way up. Because of that first declaration declaration, so to prevent slacktivism, is you need to follow up on that declaration, and they're more likely to actually step in and be more active.

Yeah, you know, I worked with a company on this idea a couple years ago. And we were trying to stop as best possible slacktivism, was for environmental cause. And what we did was their idea from their agency was to, once you sign the petition, we're going to send you a kit, and there'll be some stickers and some tchotchkes, right, so you get some tchotchkes out of the out of it. And actually, I said, No, don't do that. Because you're rewarding them for taking a small check, yes, sign me up to become a part of this thing. But you're not allowing them to become a real part of the movement. So I said, they have to take two actions before they get the tchotchke. The sticker that basically said they're a part of this initiative. And, you know, I think it worked out a little bit better. I mean, we're not asking you to, you know, make it really difficult, what I'm asking you to do is just have them put some skin in the game. And the more you do that, the more they will actually feel like they're a part of a bigger movement.

So that's a great segue, because you need to build tools to help share ideas, organize, and work together towards a common purpose. Boom, how'd I do?

I like it. That's exactly right. It's a nice transition buddy. This and if you're going to create a movement, people need help, like you can't ask your customers to go out there and try to hold a picket or something, pick a sign somewhere and say, Hey join me, right? Whatever this movement is. So what you need to do is provide those tools where they can connect. And when I say provide these tools, it can be literally as simple as setting up a LinkedIn page. And I have one right now that I just signed, it took me literally five minutes to set up my own LinkedIn page, and it's an author accountability group. So that is my cause. Okay, let's all get together and work together on our books at totally different parts of the process, or whatever. But people need a tool, because we can't all just kind of wish each other good luck using texts or trying to write each other email. So let's bring a tool, I did a LinkedIn community put it together, slap the logo on there. And now we can all post onto that, it's a simple tool to bring people with a similar desire to be part of something bigger than themselves. We all want to write book together and come together into one little room. So it's simple as that. So you need to be able to share ideas, organize those ideas, and this is a little bit more advanced. But if you get too many people into your group, and then we're all making these connections, well, then what happens is everyone's starting to share ideas. And when people start sharing ideas, and you're not taking basically ownership of those ideas, and organizing them and helping people get to the next step, then it becomes a little bit draining, I guess, where people go like, well, they're not listening to my ideas. We're all sharing ideas. But really, I don't know what to do next. You can help organize people together. All I do in organizing people on my LinkedIn page is once a month we meet that's an organization tool we want we meet for a half hour. And that's my organization. So I have now a LinkedIn page that allows you to share ideas. I get to share it out once a week or once a month we organize together and then ultimately, we work together in the working together. I know it sounds so basic, I say Hey guys, so do you all want to try to get like a guest speaker next month to come in and talk about however it is that they used, wherever they used or whatever they learned about writing a book? Sure, we all work together in that meeting to get to the next step. And now there's a connection that we're kind of belonging to this little group. And the more we do that, we're only meeting once a month, putting maybe 10 minutes a month of time. But we have a group of people now that are feeling that we belong to something a little bit special, a little bit bigger than ourselves. So these words sound like oh, I have no time, it's 10 minutes a month, a month, guys, it's while I'm eating cereal, one breakfast,

So you can eat cereal as you attend Will's author accountability group, here's his LinkedIn link, by the wat we need to customize that Will, so we'll get that done. So awesome. So building tools to help share ideas, you think about, hey, you're gonna come show up, and we're gonna protest to working hours or something. And if you're expecting everybody to make their own sign it's going to, most aren't. And then most signs aren't going to be any good. But if you sat and got the signs ready, and people showed up, and you handed them signs, then you're driving more the message, they feel more empowered, and you're being a leader. So this was a great example to set up in an accountability group in LinkedIn. Number five Will.

So I think there used to be a time where we thought to ourselves, okay, well, for us to form an in group, when we talk about tribes and all this type of stuff that we want to force homogeneity, that is almost the opposite, which then we go into, you don't want everybody to look the same, to have the exact same opinions to talk the same. Yeah, you can form groups like that, but not very strong. Actually, the strongest groups are when you can help customers find their unique contribution toward they can add to the broader good. So you know, the idea is that diversity is not in are out of sync with this idea of belonging. In fact, you can make the case that it's we belong even closer together, if we can find connections that are outside of those physical aspects that we look for, you know, or even, we're all we're all in the financial services field. So that's what brings us together, fine enough. But when you find different opinions, different pieces of diversity, but then you all align on a common good, that's what brings people together. And so it's really important for you to think of the word or one way to think about is coalition, some belonging. So don't force homogeneity. Think about a coalition government. So remember, coalition government is what happens, right? So you're in a government, and you may have to work with three or four different political parties until you find a majority, that you're going to get to a common good. That's how you got to think about your company. That's how you gotta think about your communities that your building is form a coalition government, find desperate people that we all have a common good for something else, whatever that else is, don't have to be so busy, it doesn't have to be world peace, it doesn't have to be, you know, environmental, sustainable brands, it just has to be the common good form a coalition government where we can all agree on one topic, and we bring greater diversity and belonging by sharing all these different perspectives. So don't force everybody to shave their heads like you and I have in our in our tribe, their team, you know, I found out we don't have to only allow people into our into our session, we can let other people in, it's fine.

They have to wear a Polo Shirt.

That's right, the three legged Polo too, not the four one. So yeah, those are some things, you know, I think it's important in this world right now, where if you can bring people together, and get them to feel like they're bigger than something that you know, something bigger than themselves, that's gonna be a really important thing to do, especially as we become more isolated, more pulled apart from many different angles. in society today, if your company can bring people together and make them feel like they belong to a broader community, you are gonna stand out from the marketplace, you're gonna feel much more human.

Yeah, there's a book by Daniel Pink and the title of come to me here, but it's about the common motivations for how to build a good culture in your organization. One of the things is that people want to feel a part of something bigger than themselves. And it has to exist in your culture at your company, in order for you to attract good people, because these people that want to be a part of something that's bigger than them to make a difference in the world. It's very important and we're wired to desire that.

Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that also becomes even more important as you get older and you have more significant life events. Because I think as we're younger Steve, we're a bit more egotistical. We don't realize the importance of culture, and helping others what it does for ourselves, and so as you get older as you get these larger life events, And what comes to mind was in the military, we have when when people will deploy to war, military wives come together like nothing I've ever seen, right? And so there's a there's like the same idea, right? There's a huge life event, our husbands are now going to war, our wives are going to war. And then then what happens is the local community comes together into this incredibly tight knit group. We're all looking out for each other why huge life event? I don't know exactly know what I'm going to do here, especially new time, new time, wives. When they're when their husbands are there are new time kind of fathers or husbands when their wives go off to war. There is this community that comes together to we're all looking out for each other. So these big events are like x pass, I think expats do this as well. expatriates, right? Where you go to another country to live for a couple of years, you try to find people similar to you from the same country? And why do you come together to find this in group to belong to a group because their safety? I think we go back to what you said before safety, we look for the safety, how do we find safety people like us who are sharing our experiences? So as we get older, we tend to desire even more belonging. It's not to say young people don't get it because young people I think are activists, right? We have strong activism from our younger populations. I love that. But in during life events, children being born career transitions, that's when we really feel like we need to belong, because that's when we're at our most vulnerable.

So Will you've got some cool stuff going on. At The Mindstate Group. So what's up here? Don't you have some new things you need to tell us about?

I do, guys, I have revamped the entire business with the help of Steve over the course of last couple of months. And now we have different programs to fit different people's needs as it relates to optimizing their marketing. So we first off if you just are wanting more information, whether it's through our blog posts, whether it's through this channel, right here, we have white papers, I have resources that are free, and we have a training video that's coming out. It's a three part training video that'll be sent to you. It takes an hour total, but it's going to explain all the principles in the mind state are the marketing to mind states book. Then we have a starter package. It's really for people just to want to take a step into mind state marketing. And then we have a second package, which is our masterclass, that's what I'm most excited about right now. Because our masterclass allows you to get hours of instruction on video on demand when it's convenient for you. It's for you to, for you to go through the process of bringing mind state marketing to your company. And then our very last package is the partnership program. And that's where I'm going to give you all the videos from the masterclass. But then we're gonna allow you to work with us for a year to where you can apply these principles directly into your business. So every level is a little bit more implementation. But every level is great for different people at different price points at different parts of their journey to bring psychological optimization, to their marketing. Ultimately, we're just trying to be human to get people to listen, care and act.

So you'll notice as you go through these classes, you're going to run into several things that help you to feel accepted in these groups that Will is leading and help you gain attention and acceptance from the folks that you attend these classes with. You're going to discover similarities and common beliefs, you're also going to become a meaningful part of a movement. And this movement is a movement that's fixing the things that are wrong with marketing today that doesn't feel human, the marketing that's designed for robots, not people, you're going to get empowered with some tools, you're going to organize, you're going to change the world. And of course, the biggest thing you're going to meet other people who aren't like you who are from all sorts of different industries. Tell us some of the people that are attending, you had some funny examples.

Oh, yeah, I mean, so people that I'm interacting with right now, I literally have a street performer in Toronto, who is amazing, you know, his YouTube videos, and he juggles swords and fire. And I'm working next literally, with this person next to somebody who's focused on branding names, who's also next to somebody who's working on a new cracker innovation, and they're starting a cracker company. So we have all sorts of different people, which is from different big companies, and small companies. But that's actually one of the things that has been so great in the partnership program is that these people get to interact and I get to step away, they get to interact each week, to talk to each other, what's working, what's not working, I come in where they need me to come in and then I back out and let them talk and building that community of with them. So hopefully, on their t shirt one day they'll say be compelling or mindset marketer or something like that. And other people will look at that T shirt and say, That's what I want designed for behavior.

Design for behaviors is y vote I think it's

You like that?

Yeah. Because everyone's wanting to be creative. They're a designer in some way. And we all can design for behavior.

Let's put them on some t shirts pretty soon, man, we got to get the movement out. Be human, or I liked that when we had before. Be human too, right. Remember that?

Yeah, being human is a competitive advantage, right? Boom. So Will Leach another great Mindstate Marketing Hour, learned a lot of great things today, and you're include them in your thing. And more importantly, you're going to destroy slacktivism. In these courses, you're not going to leave and be a part of the slacktivism movement.

You're not going to be a slacker and I got a promise to you guys, so I had somebody just before I started saying next week, will you do a steam and I am I'm gonna go ahead and run a steam. So you always ask me sometimes the if you're always like, Hey, what are we gonna talk about next week, I'll tell you what we're gonna talk about, we're gonna talk about a steam. And people think, oh, steam is so bad. And you know, it's so self righteous, no, no, esteem is all about helping your customers know that they're respected, that they have approval and that they're admired. And there are incredible brands that allow you to do that. So in fact, we even talked about one of those brands, Polo, right, that was a point that was an esteem brand. We're going to show you some psychological ways to help people feel greater esteem. And again, it's another one of these things where if you have customers who really want to show or be who feel respected, this next week's show is going to be for you. It's going to be some really cool tips and tricks to do that.

All right, another great episode of The Mindstate Marketing Hour with Will Leach. I'm your co host, Steve Brown. And this is my favorite time of the week, and I'm sure it's yours. So let us know if you have some other questions. Next week we'll be on a steam Will. Any last words of wisdom before we go?

Let me just use my outlets, be compelling! Be com elling with Video Marketing use psychology to it.

Design for behavior,

Design for behavior. That's right.

All right and hat's a wrap. Thanks for listening to another fun episode of The ROI Online Podcast. For more, be sure to check out the show notes of this episode and feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn where we can chat, and I can help direct you to the resources you're searching for. To learn more about how you can grow your business better be sure to pick up your copy of my book, The Golden Toilet at surprise, thegoldentoilet.com I'm Steve Brown, and we'll see you next week on another fun episode of The ROI Online Podcast.