[Special Episode] The Mindstate Marketing Hour #33 with Will Leach - The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 127

Hey, everybody, welcome to a special series of conversations sponsored by the ROI online podcast with will Leach. He's the author of marketing to mind states, the practical guide to applying behavior design to research, and marketing. And in these conversations, we're going to deep dive and explore all the insights from wills book, as you learn how to use science to connect better with your clients. I'm Steve Brown, and here we go. Will Leach it's the mind thing marketing our actually. Well, what are you doing?

I it's another great week here in Dallas, Texas. After this, I am going to actually go out for some nice lunch and enjoy some patio weather. Actually, how are you doing today? My friend?

Oh, well, I Thanks a lot. I'm hungry. And I was putting it off. And now you're rubbing it in. So

yeah, I'm sorry about that I hey, you asked the question I will answer.

You know, this book right here. It's one of my favorite books. It's a great book, if you're in marketing, if you're watching this, then you need if you haven't read this book, I don't know what else I can say you need to get this book. And the author here is will Leach and guess who's this this guy? Yes. Yeah. Well, today, where this again, I look forward to this conversation every week. And I'm sincere when I say that. But today, we're gonna learn how to grow sales with customers who desire to feel nurtured. Now, we've done a series of these, and it's all based on the topics in this book. You know, we we, I want to review this, though. But the big takeaway in that book is that we don't walk through the day in the same mood all day long. And when we evaluate something, we're usually in a particular mood. We're in a mind state, as, as you scientists, people would say, but as markers, I would say in a mood, right. And if you can discern what the particular state of mind someone is in when they're evaluating your product, then you can design your messaging to really connect with them. And so if one of your customers, or if most of your customers are desire to feel nurtured, and they're in that state of mind, when they're evaluating your product, then today, this conversation is going to make a lot of sense for you.

That's right. I was you know, thinking about, you know, over the last couple of months, we've been or weeks, in fact, we've been talking about different types of businesses and different moods, as you said, help drive sales. And each of those, and this is this session here is for somebody who maybe sells their product on Etsy, or maybe at a farmers market, you know, we have a farmer's market not too far from here, where people make candles and jellies and things like that. There is a psychological mind state that can make you much more attractive to people if you just recognize the psychological principles that your customers are looking for, in this case, to provide care or to feel that they are cared for. And so this, we're gonna be going back and forth, because nurturance is one of those funny motivations where people get it by giving gifts, and people get it by receiving gifts. So if you're in the world of gifts, you know, whatever it is, you know, Mother's Day is coming up very soon. Everybody should be out there getting their Mother's Day gifts, hopefully, or celebrating a mother somewhere and somewhere in your life. There's a gift usually that's exchanged. And that's what we're talking about today and the power of gift

giving. So my parents, they're having their 61st year anniversary next week. That's amazing. My brother and I are taking them to Mexico for their 61st anniversary trip, right? Yeah. And it's amazing that they've been together so long, but this Christmas, I interviewed them much like I do you. And I got a little gift to show them next week around this and it's all going to paint on the desire to feel appreciated, loved and taken care of by others. That's

right. I love it. Hey, congratulations. That's huge. You're a part of that world. That's awesome, man. Yeah, dad, that's great.

So if we're in this vile, magical, if we have this instinct, take care of others, especially if they're younger, smaller. What do we need to consider big will?

Yeah, you know, this is one of those deals where you If you're wondering whether or not motivational psychology matters, or whatever, I want you to think about just as a biologist, and the biology tells us that oxytocin is increased when you feel that you're being nurtured in some way, or that when you're providing care for somebody, and why oxytocin makes sense, or why that matters is because when you are, you know, creating this in your brain, you have greater immunity. So your immunity goes up, you actually lower depression, you lower stress, you increase endorphins, which makes you feel happier. And it's a biological fact that this happens when you are feeling that you're providing this care or that somebody is caring for you. So it's an instinct, actually, I think, you know, we were designed to provide care and to want to feel care, there's even, you know, there's a lot of reasons why you'll see an even in the animal world where species from one group will actually adopt another species, if like a small little baby, you know, like, maybe a baby animal has, you know, left the nest, if you will, there's all sorts of different examples of when another species will adopt the smaller baby species. Why is that it is inherent in who we are, as people as humans, as creatures, it's just instinctual. You know, we talked a lot about reciprocity in the book. And I think sometimes we think reciprocity, you know, reciprocity for you guys who don't know, it's this desire, if somebody gives us something that we are reciprocal in nature, and we tend to think about this as some sort of a kind of a cool psychological fact, I'm not so sure if that's just not a biological fact. reciprocity is biological in nature. The reason why we give is so we can receive, it's why I pet Louis, the second who comes up here all the time, occasionally, he's not here yet. I pet Louis the second, hoping that he will reciprocate by meowing or letting go jumping on my lap and showing me a little bit of affection. And so I think it's a who we are, it's not just a heuristic. I think it's biological in nature. And if you know that your customers biologically benefit from you helping them to provide a gift or for you making your gift so great that they feel nurtured. I'm telling you, you're in a great, great space.

Yeah, and it's not that hard to do. I mean, that's the bar is pretty low. And for some of us, we just, we just don't hit the mark sometimes.

That's right. That's right. And they're just in the psychological world, there are small little things you can do in your marketing, or to your products or experience to help somebody know exactly that you're helping them provide care.

All right, so the psychological needs know that we matter to others. What are some examples that we can do that? It seems like it'd be obvious but sometimes, like me need a little little nurturing here.

That's right, you know, so I oftentimes when I teach this over to my students, I try to encapsulate this idea around throwing a birthday party for like your daughter. And I think, you know, we've either been to a great birthday party, or you know, maybe we even had a birthday party, a great birthday party in our past. And so I try to provide my students like, Okay, if you were going to provide instead of a birthday party, for somebody that you loved, then you would do certain things to really communicate that you care for your daughter. And so I like to wrap it up like that. The first thing you would do it let's say if you know you are the venue, and you know, and so mom comes in or a dad comes in and says I want to run out this venue, whether it's a Chucky cheese or a restaurant or you know all these birthday party places that you go to. The first thing you would do is think about how can you help them celebrate their love and appreciation for their child like think through that and it's actually very, very simple things you know, you can do just helping somebody feel special one of the first things you can do, I think about the birthday party when you when you enter into your daughter's entering into the thing, happy birthday, Katie like like that right there and especially when it makes her feel special, because her name is in bright light. So shave your little girl or a little boy right? So seeing your name in bright lights makes you feel like this is your time your your this is your moment, small little things. You know, I was thinking about another example was over in the farmers market. When you know, let's say if you're if you're selling jams or candles, right, one way you can help somebody you know basically celebrate is just putting a little tag on there and saying to and from How simple is that? Because what you've done now is you made this thing look as if it was a gift that the person who bought it either made or they certainly took special in And doing it. So just having a tag on there nice little tag that you could write in who this gets for who and who it's from. And then maybe something nice to say about them small little things, you can help your customers celebrate the love or the care the appreciation they have for others.

Alright, so then finding ways to encourage physical contact with others. That's a big deal, especially now after we've been, yeah, sequestered?

Yeah, it is. So you Remember, we talked about oxytocin. And oxytocin really is amplified when there's physical touch person, a person touch. So any way you can if you have an experience, and right now you're right, so let's talk about you know, kind of pre COVID, and maybe how you adjust. But pre COVID. Anytime you have a chance to get people to touch in some way, it increases oxytocin, and that increases this euphoria that you have, and then ultimately, care and love comes out of that. So physical touch matters a lot in expressing care. I mean, that's why people, you know, they, when they're, when they're young, they hold hands on their first day, like, that's why I feel so good. That's why you feel like you're in love, physical touch whenever possible. Now, we're also at a point now where physical touches a little bit harder to do. So what I have instructed a lot of my clients is even doing things in your marketing, showing where people are physically touching, can influence people's association that you provide nurturance. So imagine that you're doing the gift, like, let's say, if you're going to go back to the jelly example, right. So let's say you're selling, you know, candles or jelly, you could take a photograph right of your jar jelly. And that is not going to have nearly the impact that you would have if you were actually showing somebody handing the jelly to somebody else. And that's not gonna have nearly the impact, if you were to show that somebody was handing the jelly and then their other hand was on their shoulder, or there was a hug involved or something like that. physical contact, even if it's shown through a communication can still elevate emotional arousal and oxytocin, so you don't have to just touch though it's the best way to do it, you can show other people touching and actually can increase oxytocin being produced in your brain. So find ways you can get people to touch if you can't show them. And the best thing you can do, and I don't know if you if you have the product that can do this, but showing touch on the human face, on the human face, that's the most vulnerable place that people you have to be very trustworthy to have somebody touch your face. So we know through neuroscience research that when you show especially for baby care and things like that, when the mother touches the baby space, increases emotional arousal and neural activity because everybody associates that with love and care if you can show somebody touching another person's face, it's the most vulnerable you position you can be in if you're having your face touch and that shows so much trust so anytime you can do touching of hands, but boy, you could really signal a touching of a face you will be associated immediately with trust and care. Not slap

No, I mean, just I was just thinking about that. You know, it's like how often do you get to touch your your friends face, right? Unless like you're pretending like you're you're blind? And then you can I can I feel what you look like, right? You see those parts in the movie?

Yeah, but you know, there's different cultures, right? So I can remember with Italians, right? I went to Italy and there's very much hello and they'll the touching of the face happens like Chris was like that too. So certain cultures, it's a little bit more central, pre COVID of course. You know it anytime are cheek to cheek, they'll hugs anything like that where you're so long for your cheek to cheek, but when Cheek to Cheek touch or skin to cheek, that's always going to be very, very effective. So you got to be creative for sure. But boy, if you can figure that out, that's going to be a great way of showing you know nurturance and care

where you can get have a little sticker maybe a little fun little logo sticker that you goes on the face. You know, there's a there's little things that you could do that could be really out of the box and created. There are

there are and they're not. Yeah, it'd be well received, it would be well received.

So to help them show that for thought attention, and significant time was used in their gift to others. Yeah, as a guy, I'm like feeling really insecure about this one.

Yeah, you know, the best way to express love or care is not through the expensiveness of your gift. It is one way it's the easiest way guys oftentimes figure out you know, they go buy something really pretty or something expensive to show that they care what really the Bible ology, or maybe the psychology of care nurturance would tell you is actually try to figure out something that has forethought behind it, that it also has attention like you spent Particular attention on it, and that there is significant time in in making of it. So I go back to at least what I did, which was the most significant nurturance thing I probably have done was buy my engagement ring for my wife. So I couldn't afford the best time. And I mean, I'm young, right and didn't have a lot to spend. But what I did do is I first started, I started thinking about how to design her ring. So I didn't just go out to his nails and look for rings. I thought were pretty I helped as I designed it myself. Now I'm not I'm not a jeweler, or whatever. I just said, Hey, you know what, I know that her favorites don't. And my birthstone is sapphires. And so I thought how cool would it be is if in my head, I said if I got the diamond, the single diamond that I could afford, and then put two small sapphires. On the side, there's almost like I'm, I'm a part of this bond. So definite forethought I put into it, the attention when going to the jeweler and, and trying to figure out the diamond I can afford the sapphires I could afford and asking all the questions. So I could speak intelligently. And when my wife asked me, I want to be able to say I got this type of, you know, my, the clarity is this, but I went down and clarity because I needed this to be on size, all that kind of stuff that guys freak out when they're buying their first engagement ring or their days ring. And then significant time, like It Wasn't that I just went to Zales, or to, you know, the mall to buy a ring, I went to a couple places I took my time hadn't met hadn't made for me. And those little things my wife still talks about as being you know, she doesn't talk about a ring as being Look how big this ring is, she talks to her friends about that will design this ring. And there's so much more, you know, I'm kind of compassion that's shown in doing that. And I think that's why, you know, when you put forethought and attention and significance, you're actually showing, um, that, that there's this thoughtfulness behind it, and that there's something forever and I think that comes out with a Diamonds Are Forever. It's not just for rings, but your whole campaign for Diamonds Are Forever. That's all idea. I think there's something magical in that, that diamonds, if you buy your diamond ring, there's forethought, there's attention to it, there's significance to it, and it becomes an heirloom like like rings and jewelry becomes an heirloom. I don't know if it becomes an heirloom because it's the biggest diamond ever. I think the heirloom comes from my grandfather had this wristwatch in the war. And he kept it. And that's significant to me. And so I think there's something to this idea of forethought, attention, significant time that can make something stand out in terms of a gift and turn it into something that this is something that is caring for you.

Yeah, that's excellent. You know, you talk about that little gift pack that we sent you. Again, the it doesn't have to be like extravagant. It doesn't have to be likes, but it can be creative, which makes the impact?

It does. Yeah, I mean, you're right, what's the fourth thing, you know, there were certain things in that box that you sent. But there were probably hundreds of things you could possibly done. But you put forethought into that box, the size of the box getting to me quickly. So it's where I received it. But there was like attention to it. It wasn't just here's my business card.

Or,

you know, the classic thing, at least when I was on the corporate side is people send you wine, like it's Christmas type people send you some wine. And wine is great, that's awesome. But I can damn well guarantee that though that same bottle of wine was given to so many other companies that there's the guy who sent it to me or the girl sent it to me wasn't picking out that wine for my, for me, she was like, Okay, here's some company, they put some wine together. So how much different would have been if the wine was tailored to me, or it had a little story on that bottle of wine that talked about how you know, these grapes, or to make this bottle of wine took this much time and effort and something was personalized. So I would feel like, yeah, there was some forethought. It wasn't just like, Hey, I'm buying 30 bottles of wine to my top 30 customers. So there's something really important about showing forethought. And that time was really put into this whole process makes it just feel more special.

Hey, I wanted to pause right here and tell you about a book that you need to get today. It's the funniest book on marketing. It's called the Golden toilet. Stop flushing your marketing budget into your website and build a system that grows your business. And guess who wrote it? That's right. I wrote it. And I wrote it just for you because I want to help you get past the last hurdles of setting up your business and getting it squared away. I wrote it so that you can avoid time wasting time wasting money wasting frustration. Get the book on Audible. You can get it Kindle, you can get it on Amazon, but get the book, take advantage of the insights in there. And let me know what you think. And now back to this excellent episode. All right, so we're exploring how to grow sales with customers who'd our desire to feel nurtured. And another way to do that is to help them explore relationships.

So one of the best ways you can do to kind of express your care and appreciation and even ultimately, your love for somebody is to help them explore relationships, because with deeper meaning comes deeper growth and love and appreciation. So how can you as a company help people establish deeper connections with their friends or with their with with their loved one, right? It could be something as simple as certain questions to, to get them to talk more, I was thinking about, I even had, I had an example here, where finding communities or bringing people together so that they can find something kind of unique and, and distinct for themselves to connect. So even just providing rooms let's say if you have a retail, you know, a store or whatever, having people at nighttime, come to your store, and use your store for a social event, there was a coffee shop not too far down the road, where they used to actually hold seats together for one one day each week, Wednesdays, where they had a knitting group come in. Right now, were these people, you know, buying a lot of coffee, I don't know. But the owner, I think was smart enough to realize that having a group of people to come together, and they just knitted together, but they would talk a lot created like a sense of community, they got to know each other deeper connections, and what are they doing, they're associating that community and deeper connection with the coffee shop. And so you know, certainly they have a couple of customers that come in, they're only four or five from memory. But I remember thinking every Wednesday morning, they're here, they're here, again, they have the there's a little area that was roped off just for them, I thought to myself, that's a really smart thing to do. If you're a coffee shop, and you're allowing, you know, the these people to get to really know each other at a much deeper, meaningful way. And so that coffee shop benefits from them.

You know, in the virtual world, a lot of people are doing that in Facebook groups, or mastermind, or LinkedIn groups, you can create a similar experience where you go and meet up with like minded people and hang out you learn something together. But offline, or to the side, you start to develop these relationships.

I love that new ones you just made. Because just building a face group, face group community where people can talk about what you want to talk about as the community owner, whatever is that's another that's belonging, we've talked about belonging that's bringing people with similar interests. This is different, like how you shifted and say, it's not about you, it's about giving them the space to find a connection with themselves, and then let them go off and do their thing help facilitate that, whether it's through a Facebook community, if they're questions or something, a speaker, whatever, but then let them do their thing. And I know it feels weird, because like, why would I spend time and doing that you do that because as they build this relationship, they associate you company with allowing them to do that, and they will buy from you because when they feel that need for care, they will, you're more likely to come to mind, we've been talking about associations for basically two months now. And the whole point we talked about, the reason why you do any of this is that when somebody has one of these mind states, or one of these feelings that they desires that they want to have are these moods, you come up. And if that mood is at 4am in the morning has nothing to do with a birthday party or jelly, I want you as a business owner to come up to come to mind. And then all of a sudden, you're associated with not just jellies and jams, right, or candles or whatever it is you offer. You're associated with that mood. And when they have that mood, you're more likely to get bought. It's just it's so simple. That's why we talk about motivational psychology. It's really that's why I want you to be associated with that. So I love that nuance you made Steve because it's important. It's not just creating a community. It's allowing them to explore relationships among themselves. And you need to back out of that. Honestly, you don't want to be a part of that necessarily, unless you are also the mechanism by which they care. Like if you're offering you know the product or the service, like the ring that connects people to love. Great. If that's not you, you're the coffee shop walk away.

Yeah, I remember there was a savory spice shop in St. Petersburg, Florida and they would they have you go there and you buy your spices but what they would do is have cooking classes. And so people would show up during these cooking classes on Saturday, and they do the similar people then they would go off afterwards and go have a drink or Do something together and is like, the spy shop got the credit for their duction.

I love a great example, which leads us into our next one, right, which is, co create co create, allow people to co create or provide an experience together. So in that example, Steve, when you said that, you know, having people do a cooking class, and I've done a couple of cooking classes, my wife and it's so much fun, you know, I'm chopping up some vegetables, she's over by the stove, we have the chef who's kind of walking around to different meals, we went to one where they had like five different areas. So five different couples or families. That's awesome. Like if you can co create a meal together, co create an experience together, co create a product together that provides that mechanism where these two people are able to show appreciation, have a great time, show that they care about each other. And then again, you get the credit, right? And the chef got the credit, his experience got the credit for that. So co creation, again, it gives you the ability also hopefully get face to face touching, interactions, right? When you're handing handing something over to somebody, you guys are making something together. There's all sorts of not just fun, but it's associated with care. Because you goes, you guys are both doing it together.

Yeah, so something fun. Now, obviously, we would have a Christmas party, every year, invite our clients, and the clients would sit and talk to each other most of the time, right? But you're plying them with alcohol with food, and they walk away having fun, but they hardly spend much time with us necessarily, but it didn't matter is this as long as we had fun.

I love it takes discipline, right? Because if you're always and we just it's human nature to think about our own selves and say, Well, how can I make the best of you know, bringing a bunch of clients together? Like how can I get in there, let me let me be involved. So maybe I can possibly sell something and like you said, sometimes it's just the best thing you can do is step away and go for the long game. Don't go for the short term sell go for the long game. And if they make an if they haven't experienced together and then they do something great together, you will be a part of that experience. Whether you know it or not, they will think of you every time they work together. Like neurologically the synapses have been made. The connection is made between these two people and you it's been made and so every time they get together that synapse between you and that group gets reconfirmed reconfirmed reconfirm so good experiences there, you will get your benefit, they will come to you. It's a long game, but it's an important game. All right,

so you're listening or you're watching the mind state marketing hour with will Leach. He's the author of marketing the mind states, my one of my favorite books, I highly recommend if you haven't got it, you need to get it. So now it's time we'll so we've been getting questions. And I love these questions. They're important. So here's the first one, we want to see how you do. So how how to use psychology in marketing,

oh, that's a good one. That's an easy one, right? That's what my book is all about. So how you use psychology and marketing, there's really, I think, two steps. The first step you have to do is make the connection that there is psychology, and there's marketing, and these things should be interacting together. Right. So I think a lot of marketers out there don't know how important psychology is to the impact of their marketing. And also know that there's a whole bunch of psychological studies out there that marketers are not using, because market psychologists don't know how to interact with marketers. So number one thing you could do is actually connect in your mind how the important I'm sorry, the importance of psychology in marketing, then what you have to do is, if you believe that that's important, find some sort of a blueprint or find something that tells you how to take the science of psychology and integrate it into marketing, it's not enough just to believe that these things are important, you got to find the bridge. And that bridge is marketing to mind states like that is what we did is I tried my best to take all these behavioral sciences that are really popular and been studied for decades and apply those directly into marketing. So how you apply it, you go first, understand that there is a massive connection. Secondly, go find tools and resources that will make that connection so you can integrate it into your marketing.

Yeah, that's what I loved about your books. Cuz, you know, I'm not a scientist, but yet I still have to run a business and they have to be effective. And so I found your book extremely helpful in little shortcuts that even I could apply. But I didn't have to go and get a scientific degree. And I didn't have to do all these studies. So that's, that's really cool. So here's another question we get all the time. Why is marketing research, even necessary?

marketing, and I'll explain again, why marketing research is necessary is because there is this massive empathy gap in In business world today, so I actually, I just taught this a couple of weeks ago, there's a study that showed that there's about $300 million every year that's lost on this empathy gap. And I believe that number is way under representative of what's really happening in the marketplace today. Meaning this empathy gap. That means, how customers feel, and then how businesses treat them. So customers have expectations from their business, they don't want to be treated like robots. And so over $300 million, I think, a lot more than that. But what estimates are is from Saatchi, who did the study that says about $300 million of people or revenues are lost on companies, because because the consumer or the person who's buying it didn't feel like they were appreciated, didn't feel like they were really understood and felt like technology had kind of made them feel irrelevant. So marketing research allows you to build empathy, it allows you to close that empathy gap to where you fully know how your customers feel, you know, how they how it feels to be in their shoes, and it makes your company feel more human. In a world where technology is pulling us apart, marketing, automation, research automation, there's all these tools out there that are helping us become faster and cheaper. But there's a cost guys, that cost is an empathy gap. And that gap is costing your customers, you know, or I'm sorry, it's costing you money. But it's also a point of competitive advantage. You do marketing research that you can close an empathy gap and feel very human in a world where your customers don't feel like businesses really care.

You know, that technology thing. And here's the trap, or the dilemma is that most of most of us realize our businesses need to have a presence online, we have to connect with people digitally, that where most of us get tripped up is focusing on the digital the technology, and forgetting that there's an actual human having an experience, and they need to feel safe and understood when they're interacting with you. So Excellent. So here's the other one will, how has the internet affected marketing research?

Yeah, it has changed the Internet has changed the field of marketing research forever, I'm gonna just can tell you some basic things come to mind. First, the internet made research a lot cheaper, were previous to the internet, right? We were sending out surveys via mail. And so so first of all, it's made, if it's made it cheaper, they don't it may has made it faster. So now, you know rather than again, sending something via mail, and then having hopefully, if somebody is going to, you know, send something back to you via the mail, and you have to hand process all this information from surveys, the internet made it to where you don't have to worry about doing that, right. It's an email that gets sent out, you can do faster, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, your research is actually more representative by the internet. Because now you could do Global Studies very easily. Because internet allows anybody almost anywhere in the world to be able to take a survey so allows you faster research, cheaper research, more representative research, it allows you for me, what I love about it is it helps provide in context research. So previous, My belief is that you should do research in an area where somebody makes a decision because we know that our environments influence how we feel and our mood. So you should be doing research in context of where your customers make these decisions, whether it's in your store, whether it's at home, whatever. So the internet allows you to do in context research, because now we all have these cool little phones. And these phones allow us to connect with anyone anywhere in the world at any time to help do research one on one studies. And so the internet allows for me to do a piece of research in somebody's home without having to be in their home, influencing their decisions and influencing them in some way. So I think those are the biggest ones. My favorite one is the context. Without the internet there would be it's so difficult to travel all over the world all over the you know different people's homes and do research at scale. And so the internet provides scale.

Awesome. So another great conversation today with will Leach He's the author of marketing to mind states. It's the book you need to read if you have a business if you're a marketing director, if you need to move the needle in some way, the secret sauce is to connect better with your clients and help them feel understood and Will's book will help you accomplish that will what's going on with Louis the second he didn't make people are asking about him.

I know it's funny I'm looking over here because usually by now he would if especially when he hears your voice Steve he comes over so I don't know he might be upstairs or something today. I was surprised he's doing great. You know, I think we may move him over to like some softer cafe. I'm not positive. That's a big deal for us. We may actually go buy him something more expensive. The Purina one is our cat food for sure. He's doing great. He's doing awesome. He's giving out a little bit of weight but we're okay with that. He'll he'll run it off. He runs it off in the summertime.

All right. Well, that's another great episode of the mind state marketing hour with will Leach. He's the author of marketing the mind states how to use science to connect to clients, the mind state group.com. For we go, why don't you tell us a little bit about your masterclass?

That's right, we have a brand new masterclass out there that takes anybody who enters into the master class over eight weeks, we work with you hand in hand to first identify these deep psychological needs that your customers have, then from there, we help you understand how to make reposition your companies that you can be associated with those deep needs, then we actually have you, we work with you to tweak your products and services so that your products and services deliver on your new repositioning, then we go into your marketing and teach you how to market in a way and all the principles in the book marketing to mind states, we teach you how to use all these principles in these mind states to tweak your messaging. And lastly, towards the end of the course or the program, we actually teach you how to audit your entire business, all the customer touchpoints so that you're activating in a consistent style, so that your customers feel like they're listened to that they're cared for, and that they will finally act so great eight week program, go to mindset group.com to learn more. And when you walk out of there, not just with new understanding, like you'll walk out of there with new positioning new products and services, new messaging, etc. Ultimately, it helps you grow your sales.

And you're gonna meet some other folks that are like minded. And you can who knows what's going to happen from those relationships. Right?

That's right, hey, that's one of the best things that our workshops we get feedback on this is that they didn't notion the power of having totally different companies work together. So one of my favorite ones was when I had people from wingstop, the huge, you know, wing company with a tax attorney, and the conversation they had in the back of the room, the tax attorney was like, This is amazing. I learned so much. And then even the wingstop you know, Vice President of Marketing was in there talking about how much they he learned from this tax accountants I always that interaction is is meaningful, and we just do it digitally now. So each week you guys are going to interact as classmates. And so you get those chances again and again and again over the course of eight weeks. And then in week seven, in fact, we encourage you to go off and go go talk in a room we create a little room and you guys can build that connection. So when the course is over when the masterclass is over, that relationship is maintained. So that

you had a fire eater even have a fire

eater that

you fit right in. And wingstop they've got the hottest wings and we got fire eater we got an attorney we got stuff going on

either say it's for any business it's a for any business out there. It's for b2b business b2c, hey, if you want to connect with your customers and you want to grow sales consistently, this is a great way to do it.

All right, that's another great mind state marketing our we're gonna see you next week. We'll great job I'm had fun.

Great to see you again. See everybody later on.

All right, and that's a wrap. Thanks for listening to another fun episode of the ROI online podcast. For more, be sure to check out the show notes of this episode. And feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn where we can chat, and I can help direct you to the resources you're searching for. To learn more about how you can grow your business better. Be sure to pick up your copy of my book, that golden toilet at surprise, that golden toilet.com I'm Steve Brown, and we'll see you next week on another fun episode of the ROI online podcast.