[Special Episode] The Mindstate Marketing Hour #4 with Will Leach - The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 44

Welcome to the ROI online podcast. And this is a special series of interviews with will Leach. He's the author of marketing to mind states the practical guide to apply behavior design to research and marketing. And I'm your host, Steve Brown, the author of the funniest book on marketing, the golden toilet, stop flushing your marketing budget into your website and build a system that grows your business. And then this series of conversations, we're going to explore everything about marketing, your messaging, and connecting with your clients, your customers, your employees. So come on, and join us. And let's have some fun. Can you hear me?

Speaker? There, you should be good now.

So I set up a new mic. So hang on justice

meter. And I'm gonna turn the camera I think to a different camera. I don't know if it makes a difference or not. You told me

Welcome back, everybody to the ROI online podcast. And this is the next episode in the mind. The marketing the mind state series with the best selling author will Leach will welcome back.

Thanks for having me again, Steve, I'm looking forward to this one, this is a good conversation, we're gonna have it today.

Yeah, I'm just, I'm really enjoying this. You know, usually when you talk about a book, you talk about one time. But a book has so much depth, and so many topics. And so what I love about this series is that we get to walk through, and you kind of give us a fresh perspective on the aspects that you've laid out and defined. So last time, we were talking about the nine states of mind that people approach any kind of challenge or actually a decision process. And when we're considering a solution to whatever we're running into. There are one of nine states of mind or mind states that we approach it in. And so let's quickly review those. And for those of you that maybe are kind of learning about the series now and this episode, this is number of, I believe, number four, which you can go back to the last episode previous to this and learn about the nine states of mind. But when would you mind kind of reviewing those with us,

of course. So you want to think about these things as fuel that grit makes people go after their goals, these nine motivations. And so and the reason why we have these is we want to feel specific feelings. So there are nine of these. And so with these nine motivations or nine feelings, so people seek to feel successful. Freedom, they would desire freedom, a third one is acceptance they want to belong. The fourth one is mastery, that they want to get better at something people are driven to do that that's their fuel. The fifth one is control. The sixth one is to be captivated, you know, just to be excited or to have a moment of release. The seventh one is people feel a great desire for admiration or self respect. The eighth one is love. We call it nurturance and motivational psychology, but the desire to feel loved or cared for. And the ninth one is one everybody knows if people want to feel safe, it's it's about this desire for security.

I love that. So what you're doing really well as you're taking all of these, these terms from psychology, and you're helping to package them in a way that's easy to remember for the the folks that use it on the street, so to speak. Right. And so when if you're a if you're a business owner, if you're a marketing director, you don't need to know psychology necessarily. But what's cool is if you're aware of these particular states of mind that people are in when they're considering what you're providing as a solution, then this is really important. And this is great language now, of these nine mind states or states of mind. Now there are two frames that people approach these, one of these nine states of mind. Tell us more about that.

That's right. So for about 30 years, this has been studied by, you know, scientists all over the world. And what it comes down to is that whenever we want to feel these feelings like success or freedom, the ones I just talked about, there are two frames that we go are two different types of pathways. We go to feel these things, the first one is called optimistic. So we want more of these good feelings. And the second way that we also go after these feelings is that we want, we use a what's called a cautious frame and we seek to limit bad things or bad feelings.

So for examples, one might think that, oh, everything needs to be packaged in an optimistic frame, where people are just, of course, they're going to want to be optimistic, but it's not necessarily true. And I read one of your blogs recently, where in this, this event that we find ourselves in, more and more people are coming from a cautious state of mind, in one of these nine mind states wrong.

No, absolutely right. In fact, in today's economy, there's even more cautious frames being used. So the way to think about it, and you're exactly right, Steve, I think most brands say I want to be optimistic. And the problem with that is that the people the way that they frame up, these feelings, oftentimes are prevention. So imagine if you're in insurance, insurance, by its very nature is is is cautious. People seek insurance, because they want to minimize risk in their lives. So if you want to be optimistic, and insurance, you're going against people's natural frame of what you should stand for. And so that's the fastest one. And when people say I want to be an optimistic brand, say, let me tell you why that can hurt you. So there is no, there isn't about, it's less about what you want to frame yourself as it's much more important. How your customers see what you offer, and then use messaging to kind of tap into that frame.

This is really a powerful thing to know, as a marketer when you're designing the content. When you're thinking about the images, that you're wanting to supplement, the wording or the text on whether it be an email, whether it be a lead behind or a case study or a web page. I'm there was one study, and I can't remember it, but it talked about that people are three times more likely to move away from pain, as opposed towards Yeah, towards the good. The sugar, something good? That's right. Yeah. Do. So when we say cautious and optimistic This is exactly what we're adjusting.

That's right. And that ratio changes a bit. But think of it from an evolutionary biology perspective, right? We are conditioned, even as babies, we don't like pain. So when you do you avoid risk, you avoid pain. So we tend to kind of as humans have tried to avoid negative things. It's our it's our nature. In many cases, not everyone does that. But it's kind of in our nature. So to your credit to your point there is that that's even more of a reason why you should also at least consider framing up your benefits around avoiding pain are this cautious frame. And the point to know is that this does not mean you have to go negative or talk about negative things. That's not actually if you have good creative, you can actually create a cautious frame using very fun, exciting, funny videos. So just be careful of some things like Well, I'm not a negative brand, you don't have to be a negative brand to still use the cautious frame in your messaging.

So one of the ways that I think about it, and I am referring back to that blog is that there's this we're innately we're we're innately beings that are on a path where we're in motion going towards something, because we want to get there, we want to navigate successfully there. And so I in the blog that you were talking about, we're in a an achievement, state of mind it especially during this time, but we're framing it in a cautious way, meaning that I'm going to accomplish this, but I want to make sure that I avoid stepping in a ditch or avoid setbacks. Talk to us more about that.

Yeah, I'll give you two examples. And the first one I used many years ago was looking at Nike versus Under Armour. So if you just think about those two companies, they sell basically the same types of products, they sell products that will help you to your point, achieve their goal of domination on the court or whatever, but they're there in the sports space. So arguably, their customers have the same goals. I want to be successful. And they want to feel this desire for achievement, same motivation. Same one of the nine motivations, how they message is very different. I'm gonna go back a couple of campaigns, but imagine just the tagline, Nike, just do it. It's very, it's framed very optimistically, just do it. gt achieve Exactly. Take that exact same idea but Under Armour. Remember what their tagline was early on, protect this house. Don't make mistake. We're gonna protect this house that is cautious framing it, those two campaigns were both incredibly successful. In fact, they still use them to this day. That's an example of how these things can come to life. The next example I'll give you is, I think about college football. And if you think about if you if you follow college football, Nick Saban and Alabama, if you think about what Nick Saban stands for, he's about precision and everybody knows their exact role. He's about eliminating any mistake that's possible. That's how he dominates football is he basically eliminates consequences or risk. He uses cautious coaching cautious frames. Think about Oregon football, or maybe Clemson football, they air they do a lot of trick plays. Think about old old. Boise State lots of trick plays lots of risk. But that's how they used to win games, right? They use optimistic framing in their coaching. So it's again, it gets you to the same place, we win lots of games, but how you get there, the path you go can be influenced by the way that you frame up your coaching or your messaging.

Wow. So when recruiting players for those teams, it would be who viewed a really no that the people I recruit if we're going to be in a cautious then we're going to be more of a systems and a process oriented. So you need to be totally comfortable. And you're right. But if you're like your Showboat that's going to be really grind on you emotionally wrong.

That's right. No, that's exactly I think about Brett Farve as the quarterback, he was very kind of optimistic. Right? He was an optimistic quarterback, he just threw it he swings that that would drive Nick Saban crazy. But it worked great for Brett Farve right over in this city.

So last time, the last conversation we had, we use some like rubber hit the road examples, we we've talked about restaurants, we've talked about real estate. So give us some examples of what we're discussing today. And in what industry you're going to pick as Yeah.

So I've done quite a bit of work with financial advisors and financial planners. And I'll let you kind of give you a sense of how this can be used in this industry. So I've studied the kind of life cycle or the journey that people have with how they invest their money from the point they get out of college out of high school all the way to retirement and beyond. And here's what what we've seen that happens. And this should influence the way you message to particular customers or prospects in this industry. So we find out is when people younger kids, they first kind of get their first job, maybe right out of high school or even in high school to certain extent, they are oftentimes very cautious with their money. Because they don't really have a lot of it, they don't have a lot of experience with how to spend it, they don't have a lot of experience they have they're on a tight budget. So what happens is, the way that you would message to somebody who just got out of college with their first job, or just out of high school is you would message to this cautiousness that they have around, they don't want to waste their money, they don't want to be, they don't want to be kind of screwed out of their money, etc. Then what happens is, as people get more money, you get into maybe middle management. So let's just talk about, you know, middle management career, you start actually putting money into a 401k, you may make your first investment, maybe you make your first house, then what happens is people shift from this cautious frame, the way that they think about money to an optimistic frame. Now they're like I want to maximize my gains, they're a little bit riskier. They're willing to invest in maybe a stock on their own, they'll sign up for the for the very first online trading portal. So they'll go through this idea for next decade to have maximize returns maximize returns, because they're aggressive, cuz they know they're not going to retire for a while. Then what you see is as people get closer to retirement stage, probably a lot of people can identify with this, especially as you get a lot of wealth, what you do is you start looking to control that wealth. And again, get prevention, you get I'm sorry, you get more cautious in your framing. So what you do is you're looking about how do I make sure that I can maintain this wealth and be able to give it to my church, to my school to my family, you want to leave a legacy. So of course, the way that you message to somebody in their 70s or their 60s who have a lot of money, you're going to talk more about how we're going to make sure that your investments are there for the long run that you can leave the legacy where in your middle management you may be more about we're here to help you maximize your gains and get the most for your money. Those types of words most gains, those are those are ways of creating messaging that will appeal to the way that they frame up money in their heads. And so it's been really fun working with financial planners to look at their messaging and seeing Gosh, early on, people are scared about taking risks. So don't talk about risk, you know, you don't care how successful you are with getting the maximum return. They're much more interested in, am I gonna lose my money? Am I using my money wisely, and then it goes from there. So it's really fun to work with email campaigns and looking at websites to see how they're positioning and framing up their offers to fit that kind of the way that their customers and prospects are framing up money in their own minds.

So let's, last time, I really enjoyed the vocabulary that we identified that, that a marketing director, or maybe a financial planner would want to start to weave into their languaging. So let's talk about the Raman audience there. Okay, so we've got, we are the folks that are buying ramen, either saving money, right? So you can having a ramen plan and so to speak, where you're, you're helping them go? Oh, so not only am I buying ramen, that I could be investing in some ramen companies, right? Yeah. So let's talk about what's some good language for the ramen audience.

Yeah. So the language I would start thinking about would be words like accuracy. So talking about how accurate you are systems that you use, these make people feel like you're taking risk away, I'm using the words careful, we are careful with your money. I'm even using the word avoid, you know, we can help you avoid making mistakes. The word save would be good, we're here to save you more savings, of course, would be a great word to use. But even things like as I would talk about my own company, it is my duty to help you get the most for your money, that duty side of things would make you feel as if yes, he understands me because it was somebody who has a duty, he's he's taking out risk out of the system. So that's just a few of the words. I mean, there's just it just in terms of thinking about any word that would convey that you are there to help them avoid bad things. Um, obligation is another word I would use responsibility is another word. So those are types of things and visuals, you can do some really interesting things with visuals as well. Imagine visually, if you're going to design a brochure or whatever, you would have things like the the person that you're photographing, looking directly into the camera, the way I'm looking at you right now, because when you make a one to one connection with the reader in that moment, that creates a sense of security, a sense of safety, because I'm looking you in the eye, I'm not you're you're part of this whole conversation, you would have even having multiple people in a photoshoot, because what happens is, when you show multiple people, there's again, a sense of security. And so even just having some, you know, visuals of lots of people in it can actually create that sense of calmness and security, which would be framed perfectly for somebody who's in that Raman state of mind.

Well, so that's cool. So, you know, we recognize you want to be responsible with your money right now. And that you are in, you don't have a lot of money to lose. And so this is coming from cautious state of mine. Yeah. So then we have a way to help you start to become responsible, and start building a building, having something to show for your time right now is important to you. So there's a there's some great stuff. If we think about AI, and I'm cautious, I'm responsible, I'm starting to see myself as responsible and not flippant or, or wasting my money on things that that I can't afford right now. And, and it would seem like I would be struggling with can I afford to save, though?

Very much so. And I think if you message in a way that that says everybody can afford to say because your future is at risk. Now that says you're right, so so that's the way you start framing up like of course you're going afford to save if you understand that if you don't save now that there's risk in the future. So you just frame up the risk of the future can cause people to feel the desire today. As long as it's cautiously done. They will feel much more likely to desire to start saving now.

Why let's quickly move to the now where like we're kind of starting to be established and we're starting to go I need to I've need to be in this for the long haul. Right? I'm I'm trying to fix up my house. So when I want to fix up my future as well.

That's right. So as you get more disposable income, in this case, risk you're starting to buy slightly more expensive things, you're starting to go to sushi or whatever, right you have more disposable income. So now risk is becoming more of a common area for you. So now some of the words joining us to somebody who's kind of now starting to take on this or, you know, kind of getting into middle management are words like, grow words, like accomplish. So that's, that's very much in the optimist optimist of frame. So you have accomplished your goals, now's the time to achieve even more success. So framing up is more is important. And you would also want to talk about desires, and we desire at my firm to help you advance right good word, advance your portfolio to make you the most to make you the most all these optimistic frames. So you're going to talk about things like increase momentum would be an important word to be talking about, like we've seen year over year, when you invest with us, or if you help me invest your money year over year, you will see high returns versus low risk or about the high returns. And so those are just some of the words and kind of ways of framing up your your offers. The in terms of visuals, you can almost do the exact opposite as what we talked about. So in your visuals, some things you can think about are how do you show just the one individual because at this point, the person needs to feel like just showing one person in a in a in an advertisement or on a brochure or whatever relates to that's how I feel me personally. So showing one person is slightly more risk in that. But it also creates a greater emotional attachment. You would also even there's even some research I was show that you wouldn't want the person look directly into the camera, you want to kind of see somebody who's successful kind of home, lots of the niceties when you have a little extra money, because you want the reader to envision themselves as that person. And it's hard for you to do that if you're making direct eye contact with the lead model. So in this case, you want to show what's possible, if you invest wisely, you want to show those slightly nicer car, the slightly nicer house and you want that person be able to envision themselves in there. And the way to do that is show them in that moment with those things, those items that we all kind of want to have those those, uh, those nice, you know, things that we can now afford.

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Yeah, it can be it I think it's more competence and achievement. Now the empowerment i think is we're going to talk the next the person who has a lot of money. But I think you're probably if you feel that you are a wise investor, then you don't need to feel competent. But there are still people that make a lot of money that don't feel like they're competent. And that's why they go to a financial advisor to help them so I think you could use both achieve achievement no matter what Steve achieve, I think is important. It's whether you layer in a little bit of competence that that feeling of I'm pretty good at this this mastery. Or you may say you know what, the guy doesn't want mastery. He just wants to hand the money over to a financial planner. Let them do their thing.

Some positive positive frame on the mastery my mind state Yeah, and then the previous one, the ramen. Yeah. Wouldn't be more of a, what do we want to say? I'm looking really

security it I think it's more safety. They're like, I want to protect my money so I can afford my car payment, whatever. And it's in the cautious frame.

Yeah. All right. Excellent. All right. Next we're in the we're past, more in the legacy consideration or wanting to figure out how to transition what we built, or manage it better? I don't know. talk more about that, right. Yeah.

So what happens is, as people get more net worth their children, you know, if you've kind of got the kids through high school, they may have joined, you know, the military, maybe one in the army, maybe went into college, whatever they are, but they're kind of starting to get out of the house. Now, what happens is that people's mind, mindset changes a bit. And what you find is that they now desire greater control over their money, so that when we adjust, we were in alluded to, because at this point, you have, hopefully a lot, especially with high net worth customers, it's not about making more money for most though it's a nice to have it's much now people think about their legacy. And they're thinking, How can I use the money that I've saved and that I've grown in the best way possible. And this is when you start getting donations, more people are donating to colleges, and to nonprofits and churches, they're starting to think about retirement, they're starting to think about maximizing the ability to move their money where they see fit, which is all about this desire for control. Wow. So in that case, we actually find that they want more control. So that's optimistic, they're in that optimistic, I want to gain even more control over my money. And that's how you want to talk to high net worth people is talking about how if you invest with our fund, we're going to maximize your ability to maintain your lifestyle to to grow your ability to control where you place your money, how you use your money, things like that.

Yeah, so to really honor all the hard work and planning that you've put in place to set other people up for success. That's, so give us some more language around that particular state of mind. Yeah, I think

some of the things I would be thinking about is wish, the word wish, now you can you can, um, you can finally meet your wishes, you can achieve your wishes, when you when people can achieve a wish, they have greater control, they feel like they have greater control, so you can meet your wishes. Um, you can also use expand is a great word for somebody who's in that this idea, if you can expand things that also gives a feeling of I can control right, because if I can expand it, I can also contract it. Um, another one would probably be obtain, which is funny, but if people can obtain, so if I can, if I can obtain, or if I can keep the idea if I can keep what I've earned, then that also is a way of just feeling like I have more control over my money.

Some of the things this, this is funny. So the challenge for marketers is to pick images that resonate with this audience, right. So it's the typical, you see it on every retirement center website, or viagara of commercial, they use all the same gray haired people just smiling and looking at each other, give us some variety of consideration other than this typical stuff that we see everywhere. That's it's kind of funny and cliche.

It is. And so we've done quite a bit of work in that. So what's interesting about the the images you're talking about, is that is there is reality, and then there's aspirational. Now what most of your stock photos out there are is the classic, the classic biography photo, the guy who has gray hair, but it looks like he's 25. Right? He looks amazing. Like me. That's exactly that's aspirational. So the fact of the matter is as corny as it feels that stuff kind of works, because so many people remember we talked about this last week, that are we we look at ourselves in the future as being much better than we are today. So if we're obese now in the future, we won't be if we have limited funds now, not in the future. So when you're designing to show people, their aspirational selves, funny thing is that those things seem to work. That's why you see more and more of them, right? There's a reason why because people keep buying those images. And people keep buying those images, Steve, because they work. Now, what happens though, is sometimes you can get kind of too aspirational, so far, aspirational, that you can't see yourself in that place. We all like to envision ourselves but I can't see myself on a yacht with a 20 year old, you know, date. Right? Yeah. That's why we need more variety. I think in that space of the reality. I think we're moving that towards that, frankly, is that people now, especially after we've had two economic growth sessions in the last, you know, two decades, big recession's As matter of fact that now that aspirational self is less, I wouldn't say it's totally gone. It's less about buying the yacht, people just desire to be able to maintain a good life, I can travel. So showing more realistic photos, realistic figures, you've seen it, you see him actually in stores now with mannequins that have real body types, whatever that's becoming, even in itself aspirational. Because we want to have kind of, yep, I want to be able to travel, I want to have a small home, but I still want to have my family available and kind of able to, you know, have fun with my family. So that'll become the new aspirational, but let's not get silly here. Those images of showing the Viagra guy, there's a reason that it works. But you can swing yourself too far. And I think your point is, is actually the bigger deals, how do you differentiate yourself in a sea of Viagra commercials, because everybody uses every financial planner out there has a whole bunch of images of that successful white, white hair, white male, it's everywhere. So we've actually worked a little bit on a little bit more on the other side outside of things rather than showing the nice house, a nice picnic area, with a much more diverse clientele, you know, but not so old, etc. And I think it's starting to work.

So when we talk about their eyes and their pupils, and where they're looking, they're looking where into the future, they're looking off into some some fulfilling background. Talk to us more about that. Yeah.

So what you want to try to do is think of yourself as if Think of yourself as the reader. And if you want somebody to feel they're in that optimistic frame, right? You want them to be able to envision themselves in the picture itself. And so what you don't want to do is actually make the eye contact with like, kind of the reader because all of a sudden, it creates a two person relationship, and I can't supplant the person I'm looking at. So that's why you don't want to in case if you want somebody to feel that, that optimistic self they need to envision now with in terms of the you know, should the person look out to the sky, there is some evidence that shows that it young Canada is far off looks that there is actually their optimism, I think what works better is showing an ideal situation, meaning show that person in your ad interacting with other people, but they're smiling, they're happy, they their clothes, look clean, etc, right? I think of showing a moment we call this occasion, right and occasion of some kind, whether it's a picnic, a birthday party, you know, a birth, whatever, whatever the occasion is that makes sense for you to market towards show that occasion happening, but in a really joyous, exciting way. And that will do the exact same thing, because that allows the reader to envision themselves in that same occasion where everybody's happy, things look great. And if they can see themselves in that they will feel those exact same emotions. That's what's so great about your body, your mind can't tell the difference. And so you will start feeling the endorphins and when you feel endorphins and then have a brand that is associated with that endorphin, you're creating emotionally impactful marketing.

Well, so you think about all those Cialis commercials at the end of the commercial, it shows them sitting in a hot looking out over some Valley in Oregon or something and the sun setting. Yeah, that's an occasion.

It's it's an occasion. It's a moment where a high Oh, husband, hopefully and I don't know why

they are,

they are having a moment of intimacy. And even on top of that, you like to have this expansive Valley, which is a which is a optimistic frame. So it's actually well done from a behavioral psychology perspective, as corny as that looks, I'm most people go, oh, at a subconscious level, I am telling you, it is working, it is working, because we all aspire to have that moment we're touching, touching an empty bathtub, out in the middle of a field a little bit too far on the right side. So you know, I think about it. That's funny.

So So now, as a, I'm a marketing director, I'm listening to this, but I've got some folks I have to report to the maybe I'm gonna have a hard time buying, getting them to buy into this tweaking that I want to do give this marketing director let's think about the folks that they need to convince in their organization. Help us kind of brainstorm what, what state of mind is leadership in? And how can we frame the message to empower the marketing directors that are listening to this?

That is a great question. So I think the simplest thing you can do with this module right now is ask yourself this question and just use your intuition and just say to yourself, does my customer my leadership However, if your customer is in this moment, your staff maybe Are they kind of in that optimistic mentality? They want to do their best they're seeking to maximize the effectiveness of their work? Or do they naturally go? No, our job is to minimize mistakes. And it's a cultural thing. Frankly, there's a culture thing that we all have we internally have these frames, but also cultures adopt these frames. So the first thing I think you should do is just think from a cultural perspective, what kind of culture? Do you have you have a swing for the fences kind of culture optimistic? Or do you have more of a cautious like, hey, let's take things slow, and think them out. Once you know your culture. And it goes down to the individual level, right, Steve, you could do it at the individual level. But frankly, the culture is by the easiest way, like your staff, your department. Now frame up this new idea, in this way, say, this new idea that I heard about on this podcast, or this book marketing in mind states, it's going to be so great, so that we can maximize our impact on the organization, or these new ideas I heard about on this podcast and his marketing mindsets book, they are so great, they're going to help us minimize our chances of doing really poor marketing, same idea, but then that people will be much more receptive to ideas like, well, I want to learn more. That's it.

So the higher order goal in this, in this example, would be the frame of the culture.

I think I think you want to take that in consideration, I think the higher the goal is we want to do better work, whatever that work is, whether you're building content, whether you're a copywriter, whether, you know, you are just trying to manage people that are being coming a better manager. But I think the way you talk about the idea is optimistic and optimistic way or in a cautious way.

Yeah. So he would frame it like, Alright, I want to suggest this idea, but I don't want to get fired or blamed for it. If it doesn't work, right.

I had this, I had somebody tell me this, they said, If you work in a big company, your cmo, your chief marketing officer tends to be optimistic. And your CFO, your chief financial officer, your lawyers tend to be cautious, right. So that's a good way of thinking who, when I'm talking about this new idea, if they're in marketing, they tend to be optimistic, if they're financially driven, they tend to be cautious. That's just in the corporate world anyway. So if there's a little nugget of wisdom there, do that.

That's funny. And do this video for send a video email on behalf of the person that's leading the suggestion of onboarding us and and kicking off this initiative. But the money person is the one that hasn't been in the meetings, they have to sign off on it. And they have to have buy in. So in the video, what I wanted to do was like, Look this, what I'm going to help you do is to have opportunities, even have access to more opportunity or opportunities. Yes. And says, to build upon what you're doing right now, is we're not changing what we're doing. We're just giving you access to another area, that's going to give you access to more opportunities. Love it. So if you

don't already, you already knew you're already doing this stuff we all do naturally, frankly. Now, I think what the book does, in conversations like this is helps us just like the whole idea about marketing to a mind state is being more deliberate in it. Because that doesn't work so well with people who are more cautious in nature. So let's just frame up the exact same offer in a different slightly different way. And there'll be much more receptive. And that's the whole point. The whole point about today's you know, session today is lowering friction. It's all about lowering friction. And if I could tell you the number one thing that causes your sales and your marketing to fail, it's there's friction it, there's friction. And so that's that this helps you eliminate some of that friction that otherwise people don't think about another like, keep talking. That's all we're doing.

All right, well, so it wouldn't be cool. If you had just a little brief little breakdown on the three mind states that we talked about, that would include the language that a marketing director, or an investor would want to coach their marketing team to start weaving into their content. So if they wanted to reach out to you, let's talk about how they can get access to that little resource.

Sure. So if they go to mine steak, group.com backslash resources, just go to my website and the resources tab. There's all sorts of free resources there. And I'll make these available these In fact, I have a slide that I built that shows that progression of kind of like to your point the ramen, yeah, consumer to the ramen investor, to the guy who owns the ramen company, right? It has that progression. And it'll tell you, it'll remind you of the mind state and everything else. It'll show you that progression of, of cautious language versus optimistic language. So I'll put that up on the website. That's

excellent. So next week, it started To start doing these live stream, and will these are these are going to be very popular conversations because it's so needed. And there's so many people out there that are just wanting to get an advantage and invest in something right now that could give them a payoff that doesn't really cost that much. So be honoring and tweaking the language in your messaging on your website and your emails. By following these things that you learn about your book marketing, the mind states would be a huge would be a huge competitive advantage for them. Yep. Where are some places that maybe are you on some podcasts coming up? Are you you have a workshop coming on and tell us a little bit about where people can start to find you? I do.

I have, like I said on mine state group comm I have lots of resources I am on actively on LinkedIn, I post almost daily on LinkedIn, whether I'm on podcasts, or, or just some quick videos like this. But also, I also have a monthly workshop. It's called mind state training. Our next training workshop is just in a couple of guesses in two weeks, we have every month. And it's a way for you to spend two days with me to go through some of these things that we've been talking about for the last couple of weeks. And some of the things we're going to be talking about in the next couple of weeks. But actually do it for your business. So it's going to teach you these principles, but then actually let you apply these principles to your business. So you can start seeing immediate results. So you can learn all about those workshops at mine state group calm and yeah, anything you want is basically going to be on that website.

And then my make sense, if you manage a lot of an investor, agency or an agency with a handful of folks that are helping lead people through the minefield of investments and planning for retirement, and might be who viewed reach out to will. And think about hiring or to coach your whole team.

I'd love to do it, I've got a lot of experience, I have a lot of examples. We've got a whole case study on an email campaign that went out and increased on acquisition by about 13%, just by some tweaks to email campaign. So happy to talk to you guys talk you guys through that, because it was just going through those three modules and looking at their emails and saying you're talking to somebody just out of high school, the way you're you should have been talking to somebody who has maximized wealth. That's not the right way to do it. Simple tweaks like that made it really, really big, a big impact on this company.

That's so huge. And then so I learned a lot actually in this conversation. And you know, that thing that when you're in marketing, you're designing one message that fits all, but there's no silver bullet in this. So the way that you broke it down today was like, really cool. There is a there would be a meta, a meta message for your main page, but then you quickly, quickly show the different stages of the ramen journey, so to speak. That's and and that would start to make sense and feel good and safe. So all right, well, again, another great educational edifying conversation on the marketing and minds dates. We look forward to the next one.

I'm looking forward to it as well. So see you next week.

All right. That will Leach author of marketing the mind state. Stay tuned for the next episode in marketing the mind state series. And that's a wrap. Nice. Thanks for listening to another fun episode of the ROI online podcast. For more be sure to check out the show notes of this episode. And feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn where we can chat and I can help direct you to the resources you're searching for. To learn more about how you can grow your business better. Be sure to pick up your copy of my book, The Golden toilet at surprise that golden toilet.com I'm Steve Brown, and we'll see you next week on another fun episode of the ROI online podcast.