[Special Episode] The Mindstate Marketing Hour #6 with Will Leach - The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 50

Welcome to the ROI online podcast. And this is a special series of interviews with will Leach. He's the author of marketing to mind states the practical guide to applying behavior design to research and marketing. And I'm your host, Steve Brown, the author of the funniest book on marketing, the golden toilet, stop flushing your marketing budget into your website and build a system that grows your business. And then this series of conversations, we're going to explore everything about marketing, your messaging, and connecting with your clients, your customers, your employees. So come on, and join us and let's have some fun. Whoops. on LinkedIn. Okay. So LinkedIn, LinkedIn, let me go. Alright, and we're live.

We're back. We're back.

We're live on another excellent episode of it's now called the mind state marketing hour. With will Leach, the author of one of the best books you need to read marketing the mind states the practical guide to applying behavior science to research and marketing, which means science in this book.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Thanks for having me again, Steve.

Well, welcome. I'm Steve Brown. And I'm your host, and I'm the author of a non science book, The funniest book on marketing the golden toilet, stop flushing your marketing budget into your website and build a system that grows your business. So will, we've been having a great series of conversations, I'm getting a lot of great feedback. This is fun. I enjoy it. I look forward to it. So today, we're going to talk about some viral ads, some belonging, motivation, what all is going on? Tell us what we're going to talk about today.

Yeah. So you know, I'm often asked, you know, about going viral, I think sometimes we underestimate the power of psychology in our ability to make our content go viral. And like I've said before, every behavior has psychology behind it, it all has a science behind it. And I don't think it i think it's it's too superficial to think that, you know, well, you've got to you've got to be the perfect time. And you can't really predict this stuff. I think there is, at least you know, I don't know if you can predict your ads going viral, but I can certainly tell you that there is science behind it that can make it slightly more possible. And so let's talk about that today.

Okay, so I'm not a scientist, I'm just, I'm probably like the farthest thing from a science. I'm a marketer. Okay, so we go on feeling creative emotion. Where does science come in? And how do I start to apply to help me? That's right. So

in the book, we introduce you to a model. And this model is really human behavior model that is based on four social sciences. And those sciences have now been integrated into marketing strategy. And so there are four of these factors, people's goals. What motivates them to reach their goals is the second factor. The third factor is how do you reduce friction? towards helping or to help people reach their goals? And lastly, or how do you create shortcuts. And so there is actual deep social science behind each of those factors that can help you as a marketer, or as a business leader, improve the effectiveness of your advertising. And so the thing with viral ads is one of the things we're gonna talk about today is that second column, that motivation that fuel because I want to talk about the fuel that gets you to watch something, watch a video, see, but then also share it with your friends. And that's the big part sharing, sharing, sharing. And that comes through motivations.

That's cool to the fuel to that gets me to watch something. You know, most of the time when I'm watching something, I don't realize that I got sucked in. I'm just, I'm just sitting there and then all of a sudden, I'm sucked into something. And that's the fuel that you're talking about. You don't even realize you're sitting in there and experiencing it. So talk to us more. What more about the fuel?

Yeah. So there are nine types of fuels out there. It's all based on motivational psychology. And these this is the this is the thing, like you said that makes you kind of lose time and I think we talked about it last week, like the runner's high, if you've ever been out there, and you're running, and some runners have experiences, I've only experienced this one time. But it's where you lose time and you're in you're in this world. Well, what's happening really what's happening is as you're running, you're thinking and all of a sudden that that that that idea that you have Whatever it was you're thinking about becomes, your brain really doesn't realize that you're not in that moment. And so you lose time and you forget that you're running. And you have this euphoria of emotion that is from one of those nine fuels, or what we call these motivations. So there are nine of them that are important. Now, the one I'm going to talk about mostly today is something called belonging. And this is our desire to be a part of a bigger group, a group that's bigger than ourselves. And that's really important right now, Steve, because we all kind of, we need more kind of belonging, I think, at least at least here in the States, right? where people want to feel like they're part of something that's bigger than themselves, that they feel connected, that they feel like they're a part of a group that respects them. And so this fuel called belonging is what in the case we're gonna talk about this Nike ad, is what I believe they were able to tap into. And like you said, it's all non conscious, it's all you don't even know it. But after 90 seconds, your heart rates up your eyes, your pupils are dilated a bit, you're, you may even be a little bit jittery, it really tapped into that emotional space. And like I said, there's science behind them. So that's what we're gonna talk about.

So I've watched this video, and I'm going to try to share it now. If I can do this, so you guys hang on with me. So I got the YouTube pulled up, I'm going to share my screen. Right, I'm going to tan tab, here we go. So I'm sharing. Can you see that? Well? Alright, so this is a Nike ad, I had seen this, and I was fascinated with the way that it was cut. So I'm gonna hit play, tell me if you can hear the volume, please.

I did hear it.

And that is our strength. Because we were doubted, will play as one we were held back will go farther. And harder. If we're not taking seriously. And if we don't fit the sport, will change the sport. We know things won't always go our way. And the world sporting events are postponed or canceled. But whatever it is, we'll find a way. And when things aren't fair, we'll come together for change your responsibility to make this world a better place. No matter how bad it gets. We will always come back stronger. Because nothing can stop what we can do together.

Alright, how do you feel Steve?

was drawn in I'm sitting there looking in anticipating what the next one I'm going wow, how did they do that? And then the US at the end was like unexpected, but really put a period on the end of that, so to speak.

Yeah, I agree. It spoke to me too, you know, so so you know, my background is of military. But then I went into corporate America. And a while ago when I started doing triathlons. And in the book I even talked a little bit about that. Being a triathlete. So some of those moments I can I can identify with and I think anybody that has played any organized sports can probably it taps into something those moments of high emotion right where you either won or you lost. But what I love about that is there's a lot of science behind it that I hope we get to go in but just for perspective guys, hopefully many of you probably out there have seen that video for perspective that's got well over 100 million views and 45 million just on Nikes YouTube page so it's not it's expanded way past Nike all into well over 100 million and that was a month ago. So my guess is it's well over over that now. That's not by accident guys. There's there's design that is behind it. There's Behavioral Sciences behind it that can make that feeling that you had and that feeling that you know I have when I watch that make you want to share it. So that's what we're talking about.

So the How did they sit and think about I'm always thinking In, I'm wondering what the conversation was around it when they were planning it. And that's where you're, you're coming from is, give us some inside knowledge there.

Yeah. So, you know, I didn't work on the Nike ad or anything else. And I'll go from my experience, what the state of behavioral psychology being, you know, integrated into creative or you know, we call it mindset marketing, or behavioral design is in the term. It's still many people do it naturally. So let me tell you what probably happened. And then what I'll tell you about what maybe should have happened, what probably happened was their creative group for Nike, you know, understood that in today's society, where we have biological forces that are keeping us apart, we have racial divide, we have economic divide, we have political divide, that a lot of people don't feel like they belong to a group or the group that they're being portrayed that they belong into. Um, they don't feel like they're a part of they feel isolated. So probably, you know, creative team was thinking there is this moment right now that people just feel isolated, and how can we bring people together? So what is Nike? Nike says, We have footage, or we can get footage of the greatest athletes in the world. And how can we link up these moments, these inspirational moments, whether these are, you know, happy inspirational moments, or even times where these athletes failed? or hurt themselves? And how can we bring the common athlete, the person that was most interested in buying Nike gear, by the way, to be a part of these moments, so it fits perfectly with the timeliness of the world today? Right, Steve, like the timeliness of it is that we all feel isolated, we feel scared, we want to be part of something bigger in the timeless story of Nike, which is about getting people to reach greatness. I mean, that's kind of their timeless story that they've told for decades. Now. That's probably what was said. And they created that it was a lot of work. Right? You can tell the it was a and I think there's even case studies on it. Now, thousands of hours worth of video that had to be perfectly spliced perfectly with, you know, if you saw the athlete versus the or the professional athlete versus the common athlete, you just call that a lot of work. And a lot of time. If I was coming in to pitch that to Nike, I would talk about some of the same things. But I would bring the science behind it, I would say listen, people feel isolated right now. There's a lot of anxiety in the market. In today's society, people feel disconnected to their families to their other their teams, they used to be a part of to to their students, if you're a teacher, etc. And we have to try or we can tap into this feeling of isolation by promising that you can be long to a different or trade group, a unique group. And we call this in groups. And I'd be going to say guys, we're going to today Nike, our job is to make people feel like they are part of something that's much bigger than sales because they feel isolated. And we're going to create an in group and that in group is professional athletes are no different than the normal athlete, we all we all bleed, we all sweat, we all have tears, we have highs and we have low points. We're all out there trying to do our very best to succeed. That's a beautiful in group to create that emotion and emotion. And we're going to use some science behind that.

So they were showing like common experiences, both fall down and get muddy. Both get hurt. Both fail. Yes. When both want to be both.

What's also cool about that Stevens if you notice, neither you have to have both sides connected for that to make sense, which I love about that, that belonging so you have both of those things happening. But each individual side of the screen cannot live by itself. That's a really smart move, right? It takes a click. So I think like Voltron, right? Where the two separate robots turning to something even bigger, that I love that juxtaposition of bringing those things together to take those moments of pain of greatness, etc. There's something brilliant in the in the thinking behind that.

Yeah, that was interesting. They even showed them in their lives apart from performing as well, where they're, they're adding to their personal beliefs or what they think they need to stand up for, or promote.

Very much. So I think it was not, um, you know, think of the thousands of hours that had to be edited, but also the amount of stuff that they cut, and then and then the amount of footage that they kept in I think you're right, like showing, ultimately, that we're human beings. And we're not just athletes, like you said, when they're not necessarily on the field of play. They're, they're speaking at the White House, whatever. That that's also makes you a part of that anger because we're not you and I we're not always athletes, right? I'm a father, I go to church, I'm a business owner, etc. So I think again, it's a very deliberate thoughtfulness behind showing the entire person

that the comment you just made, you know, where father and where were all these different things really speaks to what you're talking about your book, and they're in different states of mind during those times as well.

Yeah, very much. So

I loved, I love that part where it shows the kid hitting the tennis ball in the house, or on the roof, and it shows that they overcame the things that are holding them back from going and practicing at the note. So they Okay, I'm just going to do it anyway, I'm gonna set up something here and work with what I have. That was really cool as well.

Yep. Yeah, I think again, there's deliberately in that, that we all have this barrier that we want to overcome. And in this case, you know, the ultimate fuel is I will overcome it. So I can be a part of this moment that we all we all can share. And now I'll go into the senses visually, right? But how did you even notice, I think you even talked about it, the actual copy, you know, whether it's the voiceover at the very end, you know, I read through this, and they're over 21 different individual phrases in a 92nd ad that said, we, together, we're right, there are 16, times just those three words of the news and 92nd spot that's once every four seconds, right? So it is constantly being pressed on you that we are in this together together. And I love the very end of it too, with the copy where remember, it's like you can't stop slash us. Right? Every time you use those words, you're creating this in group and you know, and the in group for you guys, is this idea that there's that we all are one of the fuels is called belonging. And what that is, is it's our desire to feel connected and feel like we're a part of a bigger group, it's kind of that tribal mentality, you know, from evolutionary biology. And this idea, being that every time you're hearing the word we, we you can't help, honestly, unless you're constantly trying to reject that idea that you're not a part of this group. So 16 times they use the word we together, or we're and then you'll us is one of those at the end. That is the science behind taking somebody from this feeling of this is a really inspirational add to this is an ad that I must share with my tribe. And that's why things go viral, because you connected with the tribe of we're in this together. And so you want to share it with your friends. And then that's that's kind of with one way anyways, the behavioral psychology of creating something that goes viral, it's you want to share it with your tribe. And in this case, people who want to belong to an athletic endeavor like this.

So this this ad having, however many millions of views, you said it's the belonging motivation, but it's in a cautious, it's presented in a cautious framework, right?

Yes, it is. It is actually

explained that a little bit.

Yep. So you know, a part of the book we talked about in a chapter, this idea that to lower resistance to our ideas, or to anything is you have to feel natural, and you have to feel intuitive. And that's what gets people to not reject your, your point of view, your stance, your messaging, etc. So in the book we talked about, there's these two ways you can talk to people, you can talk to them in an optimistic way, which we call the optimistic frame. And you can talk to them in a cautious way, or it's called the cautious frame. So if you're in the optimistic frame, you are seeking things that tell you you will be more likely to become better or you know, successful, etc. So you're going to want more good things, then the cautious way of talking to somebody is, we want to make sure that you are not making a bad choice that you're eliminating the possibility of making a bad choice. That's called cautious if you look at what Nike did in that ad, and we can go through it again, after we have this. It maybe makes sense because why don't we go through it again. But they frame this up as we're are ready a group. We're already a group and we're not going to let this pandemic isolate it. So it's not telling you you can become a part of a group if you buy Nike or you subscribe to this idea. What it's telling you is that we're already a community now let's not late let COVID and racial things remove us that's where cautious comes in. So if you look at it now, think about belonging and how many visuals and words they use about belonging and then think about how they're talking to you. They're telling you they're telling you, it's we need to not let ourselves be pulled apart.

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you're gonna see people together joining One moment, one union, our strength as one

if we're not taken seriously,

not taken seriously.

We know things will always go our

way. That's prevention, we know these things won't go away.

But whatever it is, we'll find a way.

Love that. And when things aren't fair, we'll come together for change the other interlocking arms, the warnings,

no matter how bad it gets, always come back stronger. And in unison.

Even then you can't stop is cautious. Like it's basically telling your psychology behind it that then we are going to minimize the risk of being isolated again, like you can't stop us. So you know, I there's some there's some optimism in there. The music is very optimistic. I don't want to say that it's 100%. But when I looked at that out I go, it's about telling us that we're part of a group right now. And we're in it together. And so to me, it feels as if it's trying to say Don't, don't succumb to being not a part of this group. So it's very cautious, I think. Yeah, I was

watching that. And I'm going to show it one more time. But it follows a story arc as well. So let's do this.

Yeah, he told me the arc.

So here we are, this is what we're relating. This is what we want to do. We were competing. And we we work hard. we're contemplating. We're put ourselves out there. We'll push ourselves toward it. tournament. But when we run it run into obstacles, and we're doubting ourselves where we have these things, finding us, but then No, we're gonna get determined and come together. Because this is our higher purpose than it's more than just competing and winning. We're part of a tribe, it's our responsibility. It's in us. And here's the aspirational success. pushing ourselves. Look at it, we can, this is what we dreamed in the beginning of the episode.

I love that your aim? It sets up the conflict is is that these things are happening. There's a social things that pays off in the end, I love it. You're right, it spawns a great narrative right there done that

it does. So that's going on. But then they had to go deeper and think about the set psychological things that would support that messaging. And it was so cool how they put the professional experiencing the same thing that the amateur does. They all have the same things going on in their lives, they all have different challenges one's like, in public, and one is like, every day wondering if he will, or she will be in public? Don't be on the stage.

Yeah, very much. So I know, I always say, you know, do this in my, in my workshops, when I train train people. And this may feel intimidating to somebody who's watching this going like, well, how did you start an ad with all this science behind you don't that's not the point, the real point is for you to start off with great creative. And then you overlay some of these thinking before you actually do the creative, but the idea is like it'd be inspired, you know, I think probably the agency that did this was already inspired with this desire for bringing people together. But what you can do is you can, you can make visual and copy choices with this science in back in the back of your head, that's these mind states to make sure that you're really reinforcing that creative, you know, inspirational idea that you came up with, in the first place, science of marketing, just like you said before.

So this is, so this is great. But I'm just a little agency, or I'm just a little company, I don't have an army, and millions of dollars to put something like this together. So coaches to maybe some complimentary version of what we could put together, how can we accomplish it? And and, and maybe on some website copy, or, or a workshop or something that we can do with what resources we have available?

Yeah. So I think you always have to first kind of, you know, come about it with with understanding what is your customers, your shoppers goals? We talked about that? And what are the what are their goals for when they're interacting with you. And that's really important, right? Because you're never going to go viral, or you're never going to get the biggest bang for your buck, if you're not reminding people that you help guide them to their goal. So we could talk about goals, you know, in the future. But that's really important to do after that. Now, you know, I don't want you to walk away here thinking that you have to use the belonging kind of thing, you know, this this kind of fuel to create a viral ad. That's not true. Nike does a really nice job of that I think belonging can help you but it's not necessarily the only thing you can do. There are there are eight additional fuels right there in the book. One is love. And if you've seen if you want to talk about viral, I always think about love as the desired feeling. It's a it's a concept in motivational psychology called nurturance motivation. Think about Hallmark and what they do every Christmas, they constantly are hitting you with these Christmas movies. That's all about love. It's always the same idea that there's somebody who for whatever reason, can't find love. They find love in the wrong place. That shows them that they've had the wrong love. The person that they should have been loving was always there in the background, they find love together. It's basically the same premise. Do you understand how many people sit there in front of their TVs from Thanksgiving all the way to Christmas and watch those things every night? It's like this happening now. Right? So you don't have to belong or use that belonging to become viral. You just have to know which is best for your customer. Um, so in this case, we talked about belonging. So remember, belonging, it's all in the book, right? But belonging if you knew that somebody was desired to be a part of a bigger group, and that made sense for your brand it just because you're bringing people together. Well, that's what you should be thinking about then saying, Okay, well, how do I communicate that I want to bring people together? Well, you can do that through communication, you can also do events, right? Because I want you to be associated with belonging. So viral or virtual events, bringing people connecting people together, those things matter. Because not because you may not even benefit from it, Steve, right, but that they are thinking when it comes to belonging, Steve's always there for me, right? He's always there for you. But think about your creative, right, somebody who desires to belong, is going to be driven to be to feel accepted by others. So right off the bat, you should be thinking about your creative is showing people not a person, people. And if you can connect them, you can have them touch or working in unison. So remember, when they're all running a boom, they're all running even though they're competing, they're all using the exact same muscle movements, right? psychologically that is creating a sense of we're together whether you know it or not. So think through how can I show people together, doing into the same muscle movements, having the same badges like I've you actually use creative where we actually think about the Walmart vests, if you look at a Walmart commercial, you will notice that almost all their people have Walmart vest on, that creates a sense that they all belong. So think about uniforms, badges, something that would uniquely bring those people together, is another way of doing of doing that. And the last thing I would say, in this space with think about social relationships, though the Nike I didn't do this. So as much No, I guess there's some social because they're, they're focused on, you know, this idea of success. And, and, and, and, you know, trying to, I guess greatness is that timeless story that they have. But think about social relationships, when it's belonging, people want to belong to people, I'm starting to groups that socially are accepting of them. So how can you in your creative in your copy, not just say, we all belong, but you are respected in our group, your point of view matters in our group? What kinds of events? What kinds of social programs, what kind of things can you have, where somebody can give you an idea, and then the group gets to respond to that idea, build idea. So if you're part of masterminds out there, that's what mastermind groups do a lot of right, these mastermind groups, you bring out an idea into some sort of a platform, everyone talks and builds on that idea. So that's another way of creating this belong, I belong to a mastermind group.

So I'm thinking like in a nonprofit, for example, I'm thinking of one that wants to help kids that experience hunger on the weekends, we can hunger. So what are some of the things if you're, if your content is being designed to attract people that want to be a part of that organization to overcome that, then you would show people working in some sort of process where they're assembling the food, delivering the food, they each have a a t shirt with the logo of that nonprofit, you would see the success of the kids actually, somewhere eating something from that, from that process, you would see, you would maybe there would be a point where you kind of see kids that aren't eating that are it's be surprising to you that kids are experiencing that. So just thinking that's really cool. The the cautious belonging is that you want to grow a community that would like to be a part of something that's bigger than themselves. That has a worthy cause. This

Yeah, I think even at the end, right, if you're going to take us to the to the ultimate outcome is not only as a kid fed, but that child is now like, imagine the moment the child comes into the group and everyone's like, gathers around the child and hugs or whatever. Like, that's the ultimate show of one person isolated into the group that would that fuel just by seeing that would get you if you if you desire to be a part of a group, they were accepted. Right? Right. That is the ultimate outcome of that. So just like you and I are saying we could go to a board right now Steven, say Harris impossible, we can almost script out the entire TV sequence if we wanted to. Right. And we could come up with other options. Like as we're filming it, why like this optimally better, but ultimately, in the mind, you're thinking yourself, are they coming to connect as a community to get to a better place or to eliminate somebody from being isolated? Right, so that is a cautious,

or even that kid could be working in that group assembling. You know, there's, there's the beauty of this, the success and that, that's cool. Yeah. So what are so what are the some of the things Listen, let's say whatever. Alright, so we've kind of landed on four groups that you like to use as examples, the pizza, the realtor's the construction, what's what's give us another example that we could kind of envision so that we can make some of our stuff and one of those examples

Yeah, um, let's go to the real estate agent. So imagine it just for the belonging, so give you that fuel. So let's say you're that real estate agent, you have a potential buyer that you know, they're moving into their city, they need a home, and you have your first initial meeting with them. And you're asking, okay, so Hi, what are you doing? And what's Why are you moving into the area? And you're asking some of these really basic questions like, what size homey? What's your budget? What size home? Are you looking for? What area of the city? Are you looking for just the normal kinds of conversations. What you want to be doing in that case? is listening for? Are they looking for a home that makes them be? Are they looking for a home that's a part of a bigger community, a close community, or will bring their family together to get them closer together? So they may say things to your real estate agent saying things like? Well, you know, my last home, we were just this great community where we, you know, we had so many friends in this community. You right now you should we started thinking they want to belong to a bigger part of something bigger than their home. And they may want to talk about things like well, do these have tennis courts? It is a community pool, a community pool? Yes, of course, it's great that we can be, you know, we can go with swimming. But community pool, the idea is you're bringing your neighbors together, they start asking about events, like what types of events does does the community have? You should be in the back your head thinking she desires to be long? And then even if even if she's saying things like, Well, you know, it's really important for us to bring our family together. So we don't have a lot of common areas, you know, where it's not? Yeah, I'm here to talk about open floor plans, right, the idea with an open floor plan versus these closed floor plans, open flow floor plans, allows the flow for people to interact together and make it easier for people to come together, right versus closed in floor plans where all these rooms are isolated with doors, right. So if they're talking about open floor plan, you should be thinking a little bit about she desires to belong. Now let's go back to you, you go back your you go back to your home, your office, and you're looking up all these different homes and you're kind of doing your due diligence. All these homes, you have to look basically the same. Like I got the four bedrooms, I got the two bathrooms, I got the two car garage, whatever it is that they're looking for. Now what you're doing is in the back of your mind, you're starting think, how did this, this this home, fits what she's looking for fits what he's looking for, it has the flow that looking for it has a community pool. Now rather than just talking about, well, Hey, I got you what you looked for. Have you ever seen house hunter Steve, remember House Hunters, they always say they come like on exactly what you look for. And they always say, here's your price point. And it has this number of bedrooms, and this number of bathrooms almost always functional things like that, Okay, everybody should be doing thing. This is what I got for you, the community where everyone is interacting together, this neighborhood is for you. That's a totally different emotional space. It's a totally different social space, I think I talked about when I moved here to my home here in Dallas. I long before I even saw the home. I fell in love with the community studying around the community. And I thought to myself, this for me is what I want to bring my family in long before I saw the home. So dysfunctional things in the home. Were Okay, I had certain requirements. But you could show me three, four or five different homes, it didn't really matter to me what was most important to me with that higher order goal of I'm bringing my family into a community where people are safe. That was one of my fuels. And the other part was that it's a community we can meet our neighbors belonging. So when you talk to your when you're talking to your client, and she's talking to you, or when you're describing the home, you're not going to I mean, certainly talk about their bedrooms, the first thing you want to lead out is with this is a community that everybody is is feeling a part of it, they're working together, those types of words are going to make her feel. We call it emotional arousal, right? Make her feel excited. And then all you do say in this house is right, exactly what you're looking for a house the right price point, bedrooms, bathrooms, and that gets somebody from wanting to buy a house to putting an offer on a house, right? That's all

I could see. You know, in the IKEA even though it says we we we in that case, it was very applicable, very effective. But in this case, you you could also say you can imagine your friends and you sitting here in this area. Does this provide you the space that you imagine that you would have Okay, or how do you how are you imagining back here and by the pool is this? Is this what you're looking for? And you're helping them see their friends, you're not telling them their friends are there you're helping them their brain build out that movie in their head. And they don't reject that. They don't reject the movie they design.

I love it. So I remember and I don't know if all real estate agents do this, right? But I remember that when I was at this house. We had we It was already it was already bought our people were living in the home, right? So they were selling it. So the agent said, Why don't y'all go in the backyard and sit on the couch? That and she just left me and my wife alone. We went to the back and all sudden you start thinking I could see my family here exactly what you did I looking back, I'm like, she was so smart, like good, good people who have been in the industry, good salespeople, they know this stuff intuitively. But imagine if you thought like what you just said, Steve said, I'm not I'm new to the industry. But I understand this behavioral stuff. I love this motivational stuff. What if you're, it'll say, I want you to go over there. And just imagine your family coming together and your friends coming together, then you're directing them to see themselves in this moment. I love it. It makes total sense. Because we always strive for idealized self. Right? We talked about that in the book, too. So it's a great point.

It's a great point. I love what you said there about what she did. She wasn't trying to be a salesperson. She was setting you up to discern whether that was perfect for you or not. And so she's facilitating your, your discovery you're imagining, but it's not like she's trying to control the situation and get another contract done and move on to the next person.

Yeah, great point she did. She was even out there. She wasn't trying to just let me and Melanie And to your point, there's a probably a little bit of risk. Because what if Melanie and I went out there? I'm like, I don't see myself in this home. Well, probably that's, that's good for her as a real estate agent is good for me. It's good for everybody, too. So she said, Go Go Imagine if you're out there. And then when we were done, I remember I was sitting on that couch. I remember this. So I never thought we buy a house. And I said, I said to Melanie I said she was what do you think I said, I just can't imagine a reason why we wouldn't buy this. Isn't that crazy? Imagine if you had a customer who said I can't imagine a reason to not buy. I was trying See, I didn't want to buy us out. I had a house. It's expensive. I was happy. But I remember saying I can't come up with a reason not to buy this house if you don't think there's emotion in that if there's no that brother there is. And it all just came together at the perfect house, the perfect time, but also an agent who kind of reminded me what was important in life, which was safe home, and something that I could bring people together because I want to be a part of a community.

Yeah, I love that. So will this been excellent. That was a great idea, the video and the club around that. And I think that we should do more of it. So what's. So if I'm listening, I'm thinking about how you could maybe I'm imagining how you could fit in helping my organization really connect more emotionally, am and help the folks that we work with feel like we're understood and safe? How can they reach out to you?

Yep. So if you go to mind, state group.com, you will see all sorts of resources that will help you understand these techniques, but more importantly, be able to easily apply them to your business, whatever business that is, if you're an agency, it'll help you understand how to get the best creative that you can out of your team. If you're on the brand side, and you want to start looking at your creative and your content that's coming out through a lens of is this. Is this not just exciting, but is it hitting on a behavioral principle things that we know drive people to act, then you can come to these, have you come to the site and come to these workshops as well. So I've monthly workshops, that it's a two day event. But these events are cut up into like very easy to digest chunks, right. So you're not all day long in a classroom, 90 minutes here, 90 minutes there, you have a long, big long lunch. But you walk out with not just kind of this understanding of how this stuff works. But you actually get to work on your business. As we work through these these activities together. So you walk out of there with a much better understanding of how this stuff works, but how to bring it to life for you. Whatever companies, we've got people there, a boot manufacturer has shown up, we've had big brands show up with their agency teams, we've had real estate agents show up. So it's all sorts of people who just really want to make sure that they're creative, gets people to listen, care and act and if those three things are important to you, then mind state marketing these workshops are available. So mindset group.com.

Yeah, and it's fun you get to hang out with Will you get all his knowledge as well. You've got a great resources page as well on that website. They're free. You just give us your email interested in you're on the inside. Also, Will's got a great book marketing, the mind states, it's everywhere. It's on Amazon, it's on Kindle, get it. And if you like this experience right here, and you could imagine me helping you get your messaging out to the folks in a same type of situation. You can reach me Steve Brown ROI, online.com or a link Then, as well. And we'll have a little conversation and see about promoting you and getting you to connect with your audience as well. So next week, we'll be live, same bat channel, same bat time, and be looking, be sure to like, share, follow whatever it is that you need to to reach out to will, and help him help you. connect with your audience and the humans you love to serve. Well, you did a great job. Thanks, man.

Thank you, sir. I appreciate you pulling it together. And we will see you next week.

All right, and that's a wrap. Thanks for listening to another fun episode of the ROI online podcast. For more, be sure to check out the show notes of this episode. And feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn where we can chat, and I can help direct you to the resources you're searching for. To learn more about how you can grow your business better. Be sure to pick up your copy of my book, The Golden toilet at surprise, that golden toilet.com I'm Steve Brown, and we'll see you next week on another fun episode of the ROI online podcast.