Sept. 28, 2020

[Special Episode] The Mindstate Marketing Hour with Will Leach - The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 35

[Special Episode] The Mindstate Marketing Hour with Will Leach - The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 35

In this weekly episode* of the Mindstate Marketing Hour, host Steve Brown of ROI Online, interviews Will Leach, author of Marketing to Mindstates, founder of Triggerpoint, and CEO of the Mindstate Group on why focusing on customers emotions and mindstates is key to successful marketing.

*Originally produced as a livestream video

Mindstate Group free resources:

Interested in getting more Marketing to Mindstates content?
Read Will's book: Marketing to Mindstates
Check out their website:
Follow Will on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook

Need real resources that will help you grow your business? Grab your FREE business growth stack resources here!

Enroll in the QuickStart Academy today to learn how to develop and implement a proven growth strategy that grows your ROI, your business, and your confidence. Learn more HERE.

Thinking of starting your own podcast? Buzzsprout’s secure and reliable posting allows you to publish podcasts online. Buzzsprout also includes full iTunes support, HTML5 players, show statistics, and WordPress plugins. Get started using this link to receive a $20 Amazon gift card and to help support our show!

Support the show ($stevemfbrown)

{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":4.0,"body":"Welcome to the ROI online podcast. And this is a special series of interviews with will Leach. He's the author of marketing to mind states the practical guide to applying behavior design to research and marketing. And I'm your host, Steve Brown, the author of the funniest book on marketing, the golden toilet, stop flushing your marketing budget into your website and build a system that grows your business. And then this series of conversations, we're going to explore everything about marketing, your messaging, and connecting with your clients, your customers, your employees. So come on, and join us. And let's have some fun.\n\nAll right, Welcome back, everybody to the ROI online podcast. And this is exciting, because we're starting a new series of conversations. With Willie each will welcome to the ROI online podcast.\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":72.0,"body":"It is my pleasure, Steve, thanks for having me looking forward to these sessions for sure.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":77.0,"body":"Yeah, so one of my favorite interviews was with you on on your podcast is still one of the most popular downloads on ROI online podcast, by the way. All right.\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":87.0,"body":"We had a good time.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":88.0,"body":"Yeah. So you know, well, you're, you're the founder of the mind state group. And you've been doing, you've been doing this for 25 years, you've got a book marketing to mind stage, which I really encourage folks to go read. It's a very popular book, and you have a lot of folks that follow you. But I think what everyone's going to enjoy is us talking over this series of conversations about various aspects. And, and like you and I were talking before we started, these things are extremely a pick up lickable in the time that we find ourselves right now.\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":132.0,"body":"No, that's right. I, you know, as we're talking, um, you know, there's never been a better time than to optimize your messaging, because I was even just writing about it this morning, that we're just so inundated right now with advertising. And that it's even more important not just to be clear with your messaging, but also to be inspiring and to have motivations and the best way to get and to motivate people to engage with your brand. The best way to do that is right now behavioral science just is.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":163.0,"body":"So when when. So behavioral science, I always joke that will leech blinds you with science. But really what you're talking about is how to take your messaging and connect with the human. Yeah, deep inside of us. And I believe that's what's wrong with marketing. Marketing is broken, because marketing is designed to communicate to this faceless, nameless consumer. And really, when you think about the folks that need your services, or appreciate you, they have names, they have families, they have dreams and wishes. And I love the story at the beginning of your book, you want to kind of talk to us just a little bit. I think it's a great way to tee up everything. But give us a little bit how you were before that birth and how you were right after?\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":214.0,"body":"Yeah, so I started the book off trying to kind of define a concept. And here's what I think everybody can relate to this idea. So I came from a very structured home military background, I was in the military myself. So I love order. I love plans. I love processes, and I've always always had. And so when my wife Nolan was pregnant, we went through a or I developed a process that created a system to where we're going to find the perfect daycare option for my hope to be a, you know, very healthy and loving son, Nicholas. And so what I talked about is I had all these plans in place. We had actually narrowed down some of the some of the different daycare options. Both my wife and I were both working in PepsiCo at the time. So I kind of took lead on this. And one night, about five weeks before Nicholas hitch be born. He was born he was a premature baby. And I got to the hospital and we didn't expect we thought it was just kind of one of these funny, like, I guess the Braxton contractions or whatever I remember, there's Braxton something other than we just like, contractions, it's going to go away. Well, even even our doctor thought that and boom, three hours later, Nick is born, he's fine. He's healthy, everything's awesome. But I wasn't prepared emotionally, or kind of mentally to take on them. So instability. Um, I just wasn't because I thought I had five weeks and so as The story goes, I literally, you know, my wife was awesome. She said, just go home and sleep, bring back my bags, I didn't bring a bag to the hospital with her. It was like 7am. And I looked across the street, and there was a daycare. And I remember thinking I was so at that point, not ready to be a dad. But I saw this daycare and it happened to be on the list, but not at the top of the list. And I went across the street, and I opened the door. And, and I looked at the front door, and I didn't know what to do. But I knew I had to do something to be a dad, I had to, I had to do something. And I signed Nicolas up for daycare, right then in there, I put down the money. I didn't even ask any questions. And I remember thinking to myself, that's so not like me, I could do process, I do less checks, I do pros, cons. And I made a very important decision without talking to my wife. And it worked out great. But the story is, is that as a human being, I could be very methodical and rational. But yet in that moment, the best dad I could be was to go get him daycare that he wouldn't be using for months. But it just took a need that I had. And, and it met that need. And I'm happy for it. And I was excited about it. But that's how the story goes. I think to your point, Steve, it's this idea of the human. If you message to me, if you understood me as will leech, the professional corporate military guy, you never would have been able to tap into that emotion that I had when I was a newborn dad, newborn Father, I guess, who had to make himself do something to be his dad, that was the very first thing I did. As a dad, I started cutting the umbilical cord. And so that's what I'm talking about in that book is it's these moments of humanists that we tend to forget in these big corporations that have lots of data, and we study people, but theoretically, we, we peel them apart. And at the end of the day, like you said, I'm a dad, I go to church, I try to run businesses. I'm a father, I'm a husband. And that's what we need to start marketing to. That's what we need to message to, because we're all those things wrapped up into a big, big ball of love. Basically,\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":424.0,"body":"only you think about right now we have all these businesses that let's say they were this the methodical dad of you know, business as usual, we're going to do this in the next three months, we're going to do this, and then all of a sudden, we've had this premature explosion of unknowns just dropped in our our laps, all of a sudden, we can't shake hands, or we're not supposed to do business, like we've always done, never occurred to us that it would ever be this way. And here we are trying to figure out how what we should do, and what with what we have to work with. And it's such a same scenario is you're talking about\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":469.0,"body":"what's interesting about what you just said, Steve, is, I never even picked up on this. But we're even less human now. Because you're right, we can't reach out and hug our customers, we can't touch them, we can't see their faces in many cases. And so as bad as it was three years ago, two years ago, you can make the case, it's even dramatically worse now, because we're not engaging, we don't have the one to one face conversation. So it's even more of a time for us to bring our humanists to marketing, because I think that's if you can be human and and, and and kind of be there for your customers, you're going to be above and beyond anything else that's out there right now. You just are if you can figure that out.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":513.0,"body":"Yeah, so great people. So when what are people doing, they're doing the best they can to consider options for solutions that they still need from a distance online. And so when they may come to your platform, and whatever it would be some aspect of your messaging that's delivered by whether it be Facebook or your website, or whatever that may be, this is the time to really upgrade, and really get your act together. Mm hmm.\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":547.0,"body":"Yeah. And I think, you know, what you'll find out through our conversations, is that it doesn't have to be expensive. And it doesn't have to be a long term, it doesn't take a long time to do some of these basic things. The Psychology and the, the thinking has been out there for decades. It's just a matter of taking the thinking that's been out there and proven and putting into something that you can do immediately. And so hopefully, we'll get down to some of these tactics over time, that you can make very small tweaks, your messaging, very small tweaks to your relationships to make really, really big difference. And we've seen in our business, and for our clients as well. Small Things can make a big difference. If you're if you're smart about what you're doing and human maybe your way you'd say human about what you're doing.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":589.0,"body":"Yeah. You think about all the forces against us, so to speak as small businesses right now, even to hide the faces of the humans. And that's it. Like, minimizing our, the way that we were designed to thrive, that's, that's, to me, that gives me the conviction to really step up and do better right now. So, so let's talk about, you know, I think the thing that I really loved about your your book, the Epiphany for me, is in, in marketing, which is we want to get our messaging clear. But we also want to make sure that we're designing this marketing to speak to the persona that were serving. And so the traditional way of designing personas has been, a lot of times it's on the age of the person or the stage of life, or, or whatever those are. But I think the big lightbulb went off for me is that we have all these states of mind we're in that changes hundreds of time during the day. Yeah, and, and so for me to realize that there's a commonality between all these ages, all these have, whether it's male, or female, or small business, or big, big business, or whatever it would be that actually, there's a state of mind that someone generally is in when they're considering a solution to a problem. Talk to us more about that.\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":683.0,"body":"Yeah, I came to this conclusion, I'm more than a decade ago, when I was working at Frito Lay. And I was working in something called shopper insights. And that's basically where I was studying shopping behavior inside of grocery stores. And I used to do a lot of store walks. And so sorry, to just walk through different grocery stores, you see what competitors are doing, you see what the grocery stores how they're trying to differentiate themselves. And oftentimes, you do it with other people. And I remember standing in front of our chip file, and I was we were stuck next to a company called hertz. And I said, we both had the same price, we both had very clear packaging, like they're pretzels. And I'm, and I and I, and I looked at it and I thought to myself, they're both clear, we both saw the exact same thing. And almost the exact same really, actually had the exact same price and said, why one versus the other? Why one versus the other. And I can make the claim, yes, branding matters or whatever. But that was the point where I started thinking to myself, I wonder if there's something more about motivating, like, if everything is equal, then what makes you choose one item versus the next item. And that was my first thinking around, we got to understand moments of a decision, because and I think you actually nailed it, Steve. Anyone can think this way. Companies study you as a persona, they study you. So if you're Nike, you're studying people, as athletes. And you probably have a segmentation out there that has everyone in America classified into some sort of a persona and some sort of athletic, bent. But I'm more than an athlete. Like I said, I'm a dad, I'm an entrepreneur, I go to church, I try to work with my community, I'm a friend, I'm all these other things. But yet companies only speak to one element of that thing. And that one element, though, may be important. I'm more than just that element. In fact, every day I talk about in the book that you go into these different mind states, because you're fluctuating back between all these different roles that you play for, you know, your community and your household. And it was this moment of clarity. For me that said, we're not messaging to the moment, we tend to message to the person. And what we do is corporations and business out there as we think about the person in line of, here's my cup, or here's what I want to sell you as opposed to their people. And so what behavioral psychology gets into a lot more is around messaging to the moment. And so I've been trying to really focus a lot more. And yes, I'm an athlete, I'm always other things as well. But I'm also a person that is influenced in the moment so I can study the moment or what we call mind states, the moment we are mindset in that moment, I can message to you in a very unique, empowering, influential way. And so that's what we talk about in the book. That's what I teach in my courses. And that's what you and I think you're going to talk over the next couple of weeks about is these moments and how do you tap into these moments and message to these moments? You know, what I think is so cool about that is that\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":868.0,"body":"you know, in talking about our brain, right and our brain is involved in this and there's there's the old brain the brainstem, I call it the body guard, but that body guards imperative. Number one imperative is safety first, and it doesn't process language. But it immediately it'll approve or disapprove. All decisions have to go to that body guard first. body guard, no speak, but body body guard is going to say you're safe, or you're not here and I think think that the beautiful thing that you're talking about in that state of mind is if you can convey in that split second, I get you, and I understand you. That's the whole essence of what you're preaching.\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":915.0,"body":"Yeah, I'm saying, Yeah, saliency is what we call it. But that's the idea. The first, your mind knows safety almost immediately by how sailing you are. Or if you're, if you're talking to the intuitive self. And that's the easiest way of communicating safety and trust is that you sound like I want, like, I would talk in my brain, right? I talk to myself, it's a very safe, if you use the same tonality, the same types of words, you are automatically safe, and you're automatically trusted. And that's the best kind of marketing is intuitive marketing. I'm not convincing you of anything. You and I are just pals, because we understand each other and that you can do that with messaging, very easy. So that's,\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":953.0,"body":"that's amazing. Because in a split second, the brain decides that does, it does and so it's not going to read a whole bunch of stuff. It's not, but immediately, it's going to feel that. And so that's the biggest challenge, I think, for marketer is, is is to go, oh, how do I quickly design this environment? That I'm this potential prospect, or customer or potential employee? Or in an evaluation moment? Yeah. How do you design an environment? And so I, that's what I love about this. So one of the things you would need to do is to go Okay, so let's understand what are all the aspects of mind states? What's modifying that mind, state or influencing it, and then you could start to really set up, follow your system of evaluating that and then start to design that. Mm hmm. So you, there's a lot behind what you do a lot of thought behind this, how did you? How did you start to kind of go down that path and figure out a system or a framework to start to reveal all those?\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":1030.0,"body":"Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a good question. And a funny story, at least for me. So I did not come up as a psychologist, sociologists, you know this about me, I am actually self trained. What I did was I was actually I went to Texas a\u0026m and got a degree after the military, in applied econometrics, so I studied data. And I use data to make decisions for her or help decision making for companies. And I just fell into a role over at PepsiCo where I had to understand shopping behavior. And as the story goes, I ran a study where the data would have proposed that one thing would have happened, but an entirely different action happened. And it was a multi million dollar error, or it could have been, so I had to learn why is it that the data would suggest that one action would happen, but then no, consumers did those, no shoppers did it. And it's all sending motion, it's human being right. It's the human side. So what I did was I was given about a year. And basically, I had a senior level executive say, you got to figure out what happened in this or we're gonna have to make some big changes. And so I started studying behavioral science, anything that had to do with psychology, I started reading. And what's great about my, my perspective, is that I didn't come from academia. So I so I came from the business world. And what that allowed me to do was study one social science in this case, goal theory started studying people's goals, like how do people, how do people go? Why do people go after one goal for a while, and then they go after another goal? couple minutes later, what what what, what's the whole situation about an academic, somebody who works for you know, university may study that for 10 1520 years of their career, just that I wasn't under that kind of constraint, right? I had to figure all this stuff out in a year. So I'd study it, and then I go, Okay, so now I understand how people formulate goals. But what makes them go after that goal, like that's a totally different science, that's motivational psychology. So I'd study that. So what I ended up doing was over the course of about a year, maybe two years, I was reading enough to where I started seeing bridges. And you guys would do this to like, it was my passion. I couldn't stop thinking about this stuff. I started forming bridges, between different sciences to where we have a model now that has four different social sciences that bridges all of these into a model that'll help messaging and what's great about it is that it's very, it's very strongly based in behavioral science. So there's decades of literature on each one of these pillars. These four pillars. I was just I was lucky enough to see where somebody was talking about about a situation using motivational psychology, I would read something about the same situation using behavioral economics. I mean, they're talking about the same thing. They just don't talk to each other because they're totally different parts of the university. I just started formulating bridges.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1215.0,"body":"That's cool. I want to pause here just for a moment and talk to you about a program that we have just released called ROI, quickstart Academy for authors. Every day, I talk to business owners just like you who struggle with quickly getting their fundamentals in place, we want to create a great foundation, and we want to grow our business. But the things that are in our way, our lack of knowledge about the specifics, we should put in place, what kind of technology what kind of messaging and what kind of campaigns and that problem exists for authors as well. And we just chill so good with authors because, well, I'm an author, and I understand everything that you struggle with, you have a great idea, you have a great book, but what do you want to do, you want to get your book in front of more people, you want to make it easy for them to find you learn how they can schedule a time to talk with you hire you for a conference, or maybe sign up for the services that your book promotes. So what is the Quickstart Academy for authors? Imagine working with a small group of like minded authors, and the experts from the ROI quickstart team, it's a great way to get your messaging clear to be confident with the technology in your marketing automation, and how to run a strategic campaign to get you more of what you want from the investment of your book. To learn more about the Quickstart Academy for authors, you can visit ROI, or click in the link in the show notes below. And now, back to this episode. I think that that's one of the secrets to success is starting to recognize maybe patterns in disconnected domains. So true. And they give you affirmation that you're kind of on the right point, when you see that this framework or thought process is applied. And then you're starting to do it. You know, big, what I call enterprise accounts, have really jumped on this, you have a story where you're giving a presentation and and they have jumped on this. But I think that what I'm excited about is the application for every entrepreneur, every teacher, every every person that's in charge of trying to connect and communicate the value that they provide is important. So talk about the the enterprise application, and then you're starting to see you started recognize there's an real big need for this in small to medium sized businesses.\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":1382.0,"body":"Yeah, it was. So I've been doing this work for very large corporations, as you said, enterprises, either teaching this model or actually doing the research and the marketing consulting, been doing for the better part of a decade. And what you find out is whether you're talking in the pharmaceutical space, or you're talking to somebody, you know, a manufacturer of snacks, or you're talking to a company that does pest pesticides, like that healthcare, across all these different industries, you start realizing that we're not really talking about a big corporation model, we're not even talking about an industry model, you're thinking we're talking about a human model. And actually get actually started once you start reading this stuff, more and more, you start realizing you even use this stuff at your own in your own home. Right. I helped I helped a local, I live here in Dallas, and I helped a school board election, a buddy of mine was running for the school board. And it's not even a paid thing, right? I'm like, why couldn't we help him get his message clearer and more motivating, to help him help him become a part of a look, I mean, a very small local school board. And it was it was in those little moments when you're taking it yourself when you're using it to help your friends. They think it's a human model. That's all it is. It's It's how I coach my own employees. I use this idea on how I even write copy for my own website. And at that point, you start realizing this is actually this information has been used by governments, by political campaigns and by the largest corporations for the last five years. And it's not that it's hidden, but they have resources that most small businesses don't have. And it's all available. It's all there. And so that's actually thinking like, why can't we get this out to a, you know, Burrito Brothers down the road these tools to help build like, you know, we talked about this a I believe the middle class of America will be built on entrepreneurs in the future. And so and it's and it's not fair that this stuff has been You know, this information is up there in the clouds in academia, and it's up there in these massive corporations like Amazon, and Coca Cola, etc, when the same tools can be given to the local CrossFit gym, to a local real estate agent to the person who's just driving driving an agency. And so now's the time because it's there. It's available and more and more books, and more and more people are doing this type of work every day.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1525.0,"body":"Yeah, I think your comment about not fair, it's like every new thing is always immediately default. The people that are designing it, they envision it being applied into the enterprise, you know, we just want to hit a big home, run and retire. And yet, they're the I call them the invisible heroes in the American economy. The people like you and me. There's so many of them, they risk everything. They put everything on the line, they borrow money on their personal credit, and yet, they're designing solutions. They're hiring people, that I have a heart for those people. And I really do. They really do need this, and there's a way to apply it.\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":1571.0,"body":"Yeah, it's one of the most noble professions I think you can have is to go out on your own, and, and create a legacy for you and your family. And I know that personally, but I'm even more aware of it now in this economy, when we're seeing our friends and our neighbors going through some very incredibly, incredibly tough times. And thinking the only way we're going to jumpstart this economy, it's not going to be jumpstart it through, you know, a Procter and Gamble, it's not it's going to be jumpstarted and revive through small businesses. And if you're if you can't help small businesses, if you're not supporting your small businesses, you're only hurting the economy over the long term, we've got to jumpstart this economy, it's gonna come through these incredible entrepreneurs, these people who, like you said, are risking it all, they decided to walk away from something to start their dream and everybody's dream. Should should should have every possibility of success and and messaging is a large part of it. I think about the people who the baker, this, this, actually, I'm talking about pizza chain down the road. This pizza is literally the best pizza I've ever had. It's amazing, something this dude does with the dough. And it's got this kind of a kind of a tweak, on on, on on the dough that I've never had before. This guy, the chef, the owner, whatever came up with this recipe at one point, this thing is in credible his product, but he didn't go to learn about marketing and messaging. And so why should his business fail when it's literally the best pizzas ever, he went on. Like he said, he maxed out his credit cards, probably his hiring staff. And the fact that he could go out of business in this economy, because he just was never taught simple messaging tools that could get his his word out there drives me insane because there's no reflection of his company. It's a reflection of a small element that he was never trained on. And people like you and I need to help those types of people to help them get that pizza out to the masses and make people happy.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1688.0,"body":"I don't think anybody would argue that the people need pizza.\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":1693.0,"body":"It's good pizza. Good pizza.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1697.0,"body":"No, that that is. So that I think that really highlights the opportunity here, I always say that your messaging is your biggest competitive lever that you can address first, to really start to give you an advantage to increase your potential and make it through what I call the Gotland in my book. And that's so that's so important. And every person, even the person that has loves making this dough loves making this pizza, they deserve to be successful. They deserve to to provide for their family just like everyone else. So that's our mission here. So let's, let's talk about right now I read one of your blogs recently, you talked about how many how many mind states are there there? First of all, tell me how many mind states do you have illustrated in your book?\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":1755.0,"body":"So we have there 18 total mind states that you fluctuate through on any I don't know if every given any given day, but you basically have 18 total mind states.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1764.0,"body":"Mm hmm. And so your blog talked about right now there was one primary mind state that everyone needed to choose to really consider and adjust their messaging and the immediate situation of what's going on in our world right now.\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":1783.0,"body":"Yeah, it really comes down to all of the complexity and ambiguity and uncertainty in the world today. And so my company basically we monitor these mind states quantitatively and we saw in March a massive Jump in really three mind states, but one in particular, which I'm sure most you guys can, can relate to. And it's because of, you know, we have biological forces, right? where people are scared from for their health. We have economic forces, we're in a recession. And it'll it'll, it'll be around for a while we have political strife right now. And then we also have a racial and justice strife, right. So these forces have really elevated people's desire for security, like personal safety, also psychological safety as well. And what what we found very early on is people will desire to not lose any more security, which we call the cautious security mind state. On top of that, there's another two. One is people's desire for control, because people just don't feel like they're in control right now. I mean, you know, I made this case where people starting in April for many people in for many in the country, all of a sudden, their home became a school, it became a restaurant, it became a movie theater, it became a place of business, and it became the home all in the same week. And so people feel like they have control. I don't know if I have a job next week. I don't know if if, if I'm going to get the stimulus check. When is it going to come out. So people's desire for controls also a mind state, that is across so many decisions need, it's not even just like one product, it's just like people, if you can tell people that I can help you gain control, even if it's something as small as what movie to watch, if I can control that. That's a big emotional desire people have in the last one is we call it engagement. But people are just desire moments of a release and relaxation. Just, it's the wine moment, it's not just once a day, can I turn off the TV, and just breathe. And I started seeing those three, up in, in March, they carried over every month since since then. And so I tell people right now, if you don't know anything about your customer, if you're just starting, I'm talking to anybody right now, any customer, I'd be saying, talk about security, not just physical security, but also emotional security. But also I'd be talking about control, we can give you greater control, or will give you moments of relaxation, because people are so stressed out, if you can just provide whether it's a scented candle that you sell online, that could be enough just for somebody like I'm seeing video, Steve, of women putting themselves in their closet to cry, because they that's their only slight place of solitude right now is a bedroom closet, like when people lock themselves into their bedroom closets for a moment of release that tells you something that there that there's such a need for that. And so any products that are going to give people some sense of relaxation, some sense of control or sense, some sense, some sense of security, they're going they're going big gangbusters right now, they just are\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":1971.0,"body":"well, that happens to be the intent of these conversations, the series of conversations that I want to have with you is to offer those that are wanting to really start to learn more about what what mind state marketing can do for them to give them more control, to give them more security. The downside was the relaxation to relax in it. First of all, you're not the only one going through this and it's okay. Yeah. And we're going to make it. But how nice would it be to have a little clarity and empowerment to know that you could sit and address your messaging as one of your, your activities to invest in right now when things are different?\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":2017.0,"body":"Like we said, See, it's not hard. What I'm trying to do is boil down 60 years of cognitive psychology into little nuggets, little words, small phrases that you can you can feel safe, knowing that it's built upon a lot of data. But you don't need to know that like in the book, right? I remember, you know, in the book, I remember I remember this this this quote that I started the book and I said this is for those who don't want to earn a PhD in psychology while reading. Like that's it like you don't need to you need to make great pizza dough. I need to know about the psychology because that's my passion. That's that's what I I gravitate towards other people, you need to make that scented oil, you need to make that pizza dough, you need to get that home sold. And so let me do what I do best and my passion so you can do what you do best in your passion.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":2065.0,"body":"Awesome. So tell us a little bit about your we're gonna kind of start winding down here. But tell us a little bit about your workshops that you're offering. And what are some of the things that folks can do to connect with you to learn more?\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":2078.0,"body":"Yeah, so what I started doing in March, right after kind of all the economy starts shutting down, is previous to March, I would go to companies, the largest companies in the world to do workshops to work work with them with all their data, my team would go there and teach them and how to apply this type of science to their We'd spend two days in person with them going through these things together, leading discovery sessions, etc. Well, very quickly, you just can't go into a corporate office anymore, right? It doesn't work that way. I can't just show up at a corporate office. And so then, you know, just like many other companies, we figured out, well, if we can't see our customers, what are we going to do? Well, the natural thing is, we're going to do things online. And when I did a session online for a large financial services company, I sat there in the back of my head thinking, I could do the exact same thing. For hundreds of small businesses at the exact same time, I don't have to travel to one corporate office, I could actually do it right here, go through the exact same processes to help small businesses. And that's what we're doing. So it took us a couple of weeks to do, we now offer monthly workshops where people can come online, we spend two days together, and I teach you the exact principles that I teach these major corporations. And we go through the exact same activities, but we do it virtually. And there's, I mean, we just actually, we had we had it for our July workshop was yesterday. And we're going to do it again tomorrow, as a matter of fact, for day two, but there are two day sessions, where we go through activities, I tell you about stories in my background, I actually bring my creative director on to talk about how he changed his messaging. But what we do to make it more applicable to small businesses is we actually run for two days, we show you how like literally step by step, how we used our methodology messaging to create a brand from the ground up. And now it's a very successful snack brand called wicked crisps. So because I wanted to show you like I talked to 20 people, here's what they said, here's what I did with them, what they what they told me to drive this perfect messaging. And now if the brain is going gangbusters, and at least in some part, they tell they think it's because of our work with them. So that's how I'm trying to get this message out to the community. So we do these things once a month on and we're going to have another session in early September. Our next session is in early September. So you can learn all about this stuff at mind, state group calm, and we have lots of free resources. You can buy the book there as well. But what I'm trying to do is teach you the exact same principles that I teach the largest companies in the world in a way that's easy for you to implement and to immediately increase sales for your company.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":2248.0,"body":"Totally. So we'll they can connect with you on LinkedIn as well. You can publish articles and things and keep abreast of what's going on as they're so will Leach marketing in mind states and books on Amazon. I'm trying to talk will and reading it for audible. You\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":2269.0,"body":"still got to work with me on that. Yeah. My voice.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":2273.0,"body":"No, Your voice is good. Not. But it's everyone goes through that same feeling. Yeah. All right. Well, so this is number one in a series of great conversations. I'm you know, the intent is to empower marketing directors, business owners, solopreneurs students, you know how to really start to consider humans in and connecting with humans because we are humans.\n"},{"speaker":"Will Leach ","startTime":2303.0,"body":"Amen. Well, I'm looking forward to working with you on on this. It's really exciting stuff.\n"},{"speaker":"Steve Brown ","startTime":2307.0,"body":"All right. Well, thanks well for being on the ROI online podcast, and we'll see you on the next episode. All right, that's a wrap. Nice. Thank you. Thanks for listening to another fun episode of the ROI online podcast. For more, be sure to check out the show notes of this episode. And feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn where we can chat, and I can help direct you to the resources you're searching for. To learn more about how you can grow your business better. Be sure to pick up your copy of my book, The Golden toilet at surprise, that golden I'm Steve Brown, and we'll see you next week on another fun episode of the ROI online podcast."}]}